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Have IL CCW, but moved to Indiana. CCW still valid?


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#1 thegreenhornet

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 09:51 AM

Hello,

 

I have an Illinois CCW and recently moved to Indiana and became an IN resident. I would like to maintain my Illinois CCW, which expires in 2021. As far as I can tell, they won't allow you to do that. I guess the CCW license becomes invalid? This is frustrating because I met all of the training requirements, passed the background checks, and paid taxes. Other than my new home's location, nothing else has changed for me.

 

What are my options to ensure my CCW valid?

 

 



#2 Cordell34

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 09:58 AM

You can always get a non-Resident Illinois CCL. Although you’ll have to pay the 160.00 and upload fingerprints and 16 hr certificate all over.

#3 thegreenhornet

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 10:02 AM

You can always get a non-Resident Illinois CCL. Although you’ll have to pay the 160.00 and upload fingerprints and 16 hr certificate all over.

 

I would totally do that. However, last I checked they were only allowing residents of Hawaii, New Mexico, South Carolina and Virginia to apply. Has anything changed recently?



#4 soundguy

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 10:35 AM

Nothing has changed recently.

There are no options for you to explore.

You may no longer legally carry in Illinois.


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#5 InterestedBystander

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 10:35 AM

Leave the state and become a non resident, then your IL CCL becomes invalid and you may only get a non resident CCL if from Arkansas, Mississippi, Texas and Virginia.

Check the ISPFSB FAQ.

IIRC non resident licenses are $300, double the resident fee.

If you have a CCL from your home state you may only car carry in IL.

Edited by InterestedBystander, 20 October 2019 - 10:38 AM.

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#6 Talonap

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 10:36 AM

 

You can always get a non-Resident Illinois CCL. Although you’ll have to pay the 160.00 and upload fingerprints and 16 hr certificate all over.

 

I would totally do that. However, last I checked they were only allowing residents of Hawaii, New Mexico, South Carolina and Virginia to apply. Has anything changed recently?

 

 

Nope, as far as I know, nothing has changed. One you become a resident of another state, your IL CCL is no longer valid.



#7 Kingcreek

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 10:39 AM

Leave the state and become a non resident, then your IL CCL becomes invalid and you may only get a non resident CCL if from Arkansas, Mississippi, Texas and Virginia.
Check the ISPFSB FAQ.
IIRC non resident licenses are $300, double the resident fee.

This is correct. Makes a lot of sense right? By moving out of state you can no longer be trusted to carry in Illinois.
Only Illinois politicians can be this stupid.

#8 Bubbacs

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 11:15 AM

You’d be very surprised about the number of these same question which arise daily at gun ranges.

I had a guy walk in and want to rent a handgun to test.
I got the paper work and asked for his drivers license and his FOID.
No problem he says.
Wait I said, you have and then are a resident of Indiana? Yes he says why?
I told him that his FOID is invalid if he has become a resident of Indiana. I look closer at his license and it’s dated three years back!

I tell him a few things and he says ok. Then he says well maybe this will help! And he pulls out his Illinois CCL.
I shake my head and tell him if the FOID is invalid then the CCL would be too as you need the first to have the second.

He then tells me that he doesn’t have a Indiana license to carry as he doesn’t need one! I ask why that would be?
He says that Indiana accepts the Illinois CCL as acceptable to carry in Indiana and he has been doing that for three years now!

At this point I shake my head one more time and tell him that I’m sorry I can’t rent him a handgun nor sale him any ammo!

He said ok and that he would ask his friends again when he gets home. His friends he said that also carry the Illinois CCL and were the ones who told him it was ok!!!!

#9 BobPistol

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 11:58 AM

Game over.   Your FCCL is now a decoration.   Take your FOID card and FCCL and put them in an envelope and keep them as a reminder of the totalitarianism you left behind.

 

Then go get a lifetime Indiana carry permit.    


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#10 thegreenhornet

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 11:59 AM

This is very silly that because of a change of address, the law invalidates someone who previously passed all the qualifications to obtain a license.

 

What would it take to challenge this in court?



#11 Bubbacs

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 12:12 PM

This is very silly that because of a change of address, the law invalidates someone who previously passed all the qualifications to obtain a license.
 
What would it take to challenge this in court?


You
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And years n years of waiting

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And a sh&$#t ton of money, did I say that?

#12 Euler

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 12:12 PM

This is very silly that because of a change of address, the law invalidates someone who previously passed all the qualifications to obtain a license.
 
What would it take to challenge this in court?


Culp is in the process of being petitioned to the Supreme Court.
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#13 thegreenhornet

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 12:25 PM

 

This is very silly that because of a change of address, the law invalidates someone who previously passed all the qualifications to obtain a license.
 
What would it take to challenge this in court?


You
A very expensive lawyer
Lots n lots of time

And years n years of waiting

Oh
And a sh&$#t ton of money, did I say that?

 

 

 

You don't know what I'm willing to spend to give this a shot or how long I'm willing to wait. Who would be the best person to contact to get started? Are there any attorneys known here in the message board whose expertise is in this area? The Culp vs. State of Illinois case is very interesting. As a former Illinois resident with a CCW, I would be interested in helping with that if I can. Is there someone I can contact at the Illinois State Rifle Association?



#14 Redlin

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 02:18 PM

 


You don't know what I'm willing to spend to give this a shot or how long I'm willing to wait.

 

I can understand your frustration,but by the time the case got decided your ccl  would be past expiration or about to expire.Then,if things did change ,you could apply for a $300 non res. IL  CCL. Save your money ,get an IN permit,and has been suggested just be glad to be gone from IL

 

ETA: Although helping out in Culp vs. Madigan is a good thought for anyone from out of state.


Edited by Redlin, 20 October 2019 - 02:22 PM.

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#15 thegreenhornet

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 02:55 PM

if things did change ,you could apply for a $300 non res. IL  CCL. Save your money ,get an IN permit,and has been suggested just be glad to be gone from IL

 

 

ETA: Although helping out in Culp vs. Madigan is a good thought for anyone from out of state.

 

 

IN lifetime permit already done. I've had one since 2010. IN even lets you keep it if you move - just submit a change of address to them through the IN state police website.

 

The problem is that as an IN resident, IL won't allow me to apply for the non-res permit, even if I pay them $300. I'd like to challenge that since their criteria for deciding residents of which states is so arbitrary.

 

Re Culp vs. Madigan - maybe I could add my story to it or not. It's a little different for me as I'm a former IL resident with a CCW, of which the validity is now in question. I just want to seek referrals here on the message board because I don't know what attorneys are the best to contact for something like this. I know which gun rights attorneys are great in Indiana, but not so much in Illinois.

 

You all beat the silly Illinois laws in cases like MacDonald vs Chicago and Holmes vs Illinois. I don't see why I can't do the same. How do I get the ball rolling?



#16 soundguy

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 03:27 PM

Under current law, the validity of your IL CCL is not in question. It is simply invalid.

IMO no one from any state, including IL, wants an Illinois License to Carry. Only those from Illinois and those other four states are eligible to apply. I think the best way around this problem would be universal recognition of a license to carry issued by ones home state. If you won the Powerball, and were willing to spend it all on one thing, this would give you the most bang for your bucks.

Meanwhile, I understand Michigan is about to make carry in Michigan a bit easier. This is good news.

Edited by soundguy, 20 October 2019 - 03:31 PM.

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#17 jim123

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 03:39 PM

Your Indiana permit allows you to car carry in illinois. That makes this sh!thole, backward state look even dumber. If you can have a loaded gun in your car but not walking down the street, what difference does it make to anyone else? Liberal logic. Trump 2020, Pence 2024.


Edited by jim123, 20 October 2019 - 03:44 PM.


#18 InterestedBystander

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 04:08 PM

The problem is that as an IN resident, IL won't allow me to apply for the non-res permit, even if I pay them $300. I'd like to challenge that since their criteria for deciding residents of which states is so arbitrary.

Out of curiousity, if you log in to the IL CCL portal, what does the status of your license show?

As for a lawyer, for something of this degree, I would probably look for someone initially via ISRA, NRA (although they have severed ties with some previously used IL attorneys), GOA, SAF. As others have said, lots of time, lots of money, sufficient background that lawyers think winnable, etc.
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#19 thegreenhornet

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 07:24 PM

 

The problem is that as an IN resident, IL won't allow me to apply for the non-res permit, even if I pay them $300. I'd like to challenge that since their criteria for deciding residents of which states is so arbitrary.

Out of curiousity, if you log in to the IL CCL portal, what does the status of your license show?

As for a lawyer, for something of this degree, I would probably look for someone initially via ISRA, NRA (although they have severed ties with some previously used IL attorneys), GOA, SAF. As others have said, lots of time, lots of money, sufficient background that lawyers think winnable, etc.

 

 

The IL State Police shows that my license and FOID are marked as "Active".

 

Meanwhile, I understand Michigan is about to make carry in Michigan a bit easier. This is good news.

 

How so? As far as my understanding goes, Michigan has reciprocity with both Illinois and Indiana.



#20 Bubbacs

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 10:17 PM

Pardon my skepticism but 5 plus years and the first post goes against all we know and have know for those 5 plus years.
And the Illinois license can show active IF you just recently moved to Indiana as a resident and the DL and such haven’t hit the wires yet!

But good luck with the suit and please keep us informed as it moves along.

#21 Euler

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 11:11 PM

... 
I have an Illinois CCW and recently moved to Indiana and became an IN resident....

IN lifetime permit already done. I've had one since 2010....

Pardon my skepticism but 5 plus years and the first post goes against all we know and have know for those 5 plus years.
And the Illinois license can show active IF you just recently moved to Indiana as a resident and the DL and such haven’t hit the wires yet!
...


Indiana cc license since 2010 + Illinois cc license since 2014 (for obvious reasons) + "recently" moved to Indiana = um, no

Perhaps the OP used to live in Indiana and got the Indiana cc license, then moved to Illinois and got Illinois DL and cc license, and now moved back to Indiana (still using Illinois DL) and is about to get an Indiana DL. Maybe the question is whether Indiana still considers the Indiana cc license valid. I'm pretty sure lifetime licenses can only be held by Indiana residents, so moving out of state should have voided that one.

You can probably get away with playing fast and loose with state laws and residences for a while for DLs and guns (and probably taxation), but if something happens for which you really need a valid license and don't have one, something that wouldn't otherwise get you charged criminally is going to get you charged criminally.
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#22 Hatchet

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 05:04 AM

If you work or live in Indiana you need Indiana's license. More than likely lived in Illinois, worked in Indiana (so could and had to get a license) then moved over the state line.


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#23 soundguy

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 06:01 AM

The IL State Police shows that my license and FOID are marked as "Active".

 

Meanwhile, I understand Michigan is about to make carry in Michigan a bit easier. This is good news.

 

How so? As far as my understanding goes, Michigan has reciprocity with both Illinois and Indiana.

 

 

If your FOID/CCL still show as active, it is likely because they have not yet discovered you are no longer an Illinois resident, possibly because you have failed to return your FOID/CCL as required. If it were me, I would certainly NEVER carry those Illinois cards, fearful that I may be accused of impersonating an Illinoisan for the purpose of (illegally) carrying a gun in Illinois. There is no wiggle room and your CCW is no longer valid, no matter what the status on the ISP portal is. It is foolish to think otherwise.

 

Michigan recognizes an Illinois License (and all others, I think) but Illinois has NO RECIPROCITY with any state. In other words... the only license valid in Illinois is a valid Illinois License. While it might seem like 'it's just semantics'... it is important to understand the little details.

 

Re Changes in MI:

It's a refinement, of sorts, for Michiganders. While in Detroit last week, I kept hearing (on NPR) about MI possibly no longer requiring a CC permit with 8 hours training to conceal, but you would still need a "permit to purchase a handgun" from your local LEO and could only conceal guns "registered" to you via the purchase permit. Sort of constitutional carry except you still need a purchase permit.

 

If you are not a Michigander, you still need a valid permit or license to carry from your home state.


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#24 RandyP

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 06:27 AM

Nothing has changed recently.

There are no options for you to explore.

You may no longer legally carry in Illinois.

Same goes for an Illinois RESIDENT fishing or hunting license, or IL Driver's License, or Illinois Income Tax payment.

 

I'm 'assuming' you ( the OP) have no plans to sue for the 'right' to pay State income taxes in Illinois and Indiana each year because you used to be an Illinois resident?

 

Enjoy the joy and delight in now being a full-time Hoosier. Leave the past...in the past. Oh so many of us wish we could afford to join you across that State line.


Edited by RandyP, 21 October 2019 - 06:27 AM.

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#25 thegreenhornet

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 08:42 AM


Indiana cc license since 2010 + Illinois cc license since 2014 (for obvious reasons) + "recently" moved to Indiana = um, no

 

 

Common man the answer is simple. I grew up in Northwest Indiana where I originally got my IN permit. Lived in Chicago for a while because I got a job there and wanted to live in the city. During that time I got licensed in Illinois. Then decided to move back to Indiana. In Indiana, lifetime permit is valid as long as you maintain your address in the state firearms licensing portal. It will let you enter an out of state address. Haven't had any problems with it, and even fact checked on this  with an attorney.

 

I have to say this is quite disappointing. Nobody can recommend some channels for me to start investigating what actions could be done? After all, Illinoisians wouldn't have a CCW permitting system at all if it wasn't for a resident with multiple out-of-state permits taking the state to court because the law still wouldn't allow them to carry at home. Repeatedly, the district courts have ruled in favor of individual rights. Things can be done with positive outcomes. It's unproductive to be so skeptical and pessimistic.



#26 RandyP

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 08:53 AM

It is, IMHO, neither skeptical nor pessimistic to recognize the FACT that a person can have only one "legal" residence. Said person can of course choose where that residence will be.

 

Once chosen, it is a simple reality that the rules and regs of that specific locale are the ones under which that legal resident will be governed.

 

You seem to be seeking a way to break the law but still abide by it? Good luck wit dat. lol


Edited by RandyP, 21 October 2019 - 08:53 AM.

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#27 thegreenhornet

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 09:15 AM

Well, I did some further research on this and unfortunately I think you guys are right - not much can be done about my situation. This part of the Culp vs Madigan opinion kind of explains their thinking and why I'm kinda screwed as far as having an IL CCW:

 

 

The plaintiffs' claim to be allowed to carry concealed firearms when they are visiting Illinois would be compelling if the Illinois authorities could reliably determine whether in fact a nonresident applicant for an Illinois concealed-carry license had all the qualifications that Illinois, or states that have concealed-carry laws substantially similar to Illinois, require be met. But while the Illinois state police have ready access to information about Illinois residents (mainly about whether the applicant for a concealed-carry license has a criminal history or a history of mental illness) that is necessary to determine whether an applicant is eligible to obtain such a license, they lack reliable access to the information they need about the qualifications of nonresident applicants other than residents of the four “substantially similar” states.

An uncontradicted affidavit from Jessica Trame, the chief of the Illinois Firearms Services Bureau, lists information sources that the Bureau relies on in determining whether an applicant for a concealed-carry license is eligible. They include records of drivers' licenses and a computerized criminal history records system. There is also the federal database of criminal histories mentioned earlier (NLETS) that the police can access, but it is incomplete because many states submit incomplete information on their arrest and prosecution records to the database. And while the Illinois Bureau can request information from local jurisdictions (cities, counties, etc.) in other states, those jurisdictions charge for the information; and the Bureau claims without contradiction that it lacks the funds required to pay the charges (Illinois state agencies are notoriously underfunded). The Bureau has for example encountered significant difficulties in its efforts to obtain mental health information about residents of other states; many of those states don't track such information.

Source: https://caselaw.find...it/1751571.html

 

So, I guess the only way I'll ever be able to carry in IL again is if IN changes their reporting standards or license qualification criteria (unlikely to happen), or if SCOTUS rules in favor of Culp.

 

I was hopeful that having been a former IL resident with a valid CCW I'd be able to do something about it, but now I'm doubtful. Thanks for informing me about the Culp vs Madigan case. I wouldn't have known about it otherwise.



#28 BigJim

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:07 PM

Just wondering what address does the Ill website show for your FOID/FCCL?


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#29 oohrah

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:32 PM

The verification of mental illness or criminal activity is the crux of the issue. Once you move out of state, even tho you were qualified as an IL resident, your future status cannot be verified, you are no longer qualified. Twisted logic I agree, but that is the situation.

What irks me is why IL won't just recognize my Texas license, since we are "substantially similar". Instead I had to pay the exorbitant license fee for a non-resident CCL. (Maybe that's why :) )
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#30 cybermgk

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 12:25 PM

 

This is very silly that because of a change of address, the law invalidates someone who previously passed all the qualifications to obtain a license.
 
What would it take to challenge this in court?


You
A very expensive lawyer
Lots n lots of time

And years n years of waiting

Oh
And a sh&$#t ton of money, did I say that?

 

So, not clear on this.  Is there a lot of cost?


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