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Pournaras v. People


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#1 Molly B.

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 11:19 AM

http://illinoiscourt...ict/3170051.pdf

 

A win for the Second Amendment in IL Appellate Court. Plaintiff is an IllinoisCarry member.  Thank you Kosta!

 

Key points:

 

By  virtue  of  completing  his  sentence,  petitioner  had  his  civil  rights  restored  within  the meaning  of  the  Gun  Control  Act. Id.  Therefore,  petitioner  utilized  an  exception  to  remove himself from disqualification under  federal law.  Under  a proper  reading  of the Gun Control Act, we hold petitioner should be allowed to obtain a FOID card because we find he has met all of the statutory requirements. See 430 ILCS 65/10© (West 2014).

 

This result also avoids an absurd application of the law. See Coram, 2013 IL 113867, ¶ 57 (“In the construction of our statutes, this court presumes that the legislature did not intend to create absurd, inconvenient, or unjust results.”). To find petitioner never had his civil rights removed  so  as  to  prevent  them  from  being  restored  would  disproportionately  punish  a  less serious  offender.  The  State’s  argument  is  that  if  petitioner’s  crimes  were  of  a  sufficient magnitude, to require, say, a sentence of five years’ imprisonment, there would be no question whether his civil rights were restored. The proposition fails on its face because a sentence of probation is no less of a sentence or legal obstacle than incarceration, at least with respect to holding office or sitting on a jury.   ¶ 18Assuming  no  intervening  disqualifying  events  and  in  light  of  the  trial  court’s  other findings, we remand with directions for the trial court to direct the Department of the Illinois State Police to issue petitioner a FOID card.

 

 


 

 

I do expect the IL Attorney General to appeal this case to the IL Supreme Court thought, so the battle may not be over.


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#2 lockman

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 11:27 AM

​ his privilege to obtain a FOID card

 

 

So Illinois conciders a prerequisite document to exersize your fudamental rights a 'privilege'? 


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#3 Penumbra1811

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 12:03 PM

I'm basically in the same boat here a few felonies over twenty 23 years ago and no illegal trouble since then. A burglary and a forgery with no forcable felony. They dropped the residential burglary to theft over and was denied my Foid. Went to Circuit Court and was denied because of these felonies and was told I didn't exhaust all my options but now I've been in appeals with ISP for over a year. I was summoned twice if not three times for jury duty but wasn't picked. Seems to me they just pick and choose who gets the Foid Card it's so frustrating. This was all in Macon County no reason why I shouldn't be allowed my card. I'm not a danger to people or myself and I have obeyed all laws with out getting into trouble besides a minor traffic violation, went to college got my CDL. I have raised a family own everything I have and have a good job. I want my right restored to hunt, target shoot and protection.

#4 Kosta

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 12:10 PM

Kankakee il

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#5 Penumbra1811

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 06:56 AM

I have hired Mr. O'Brien to take my case and is drawing up the petition. Hopefully it goes well because I meet all the requirements.

#6 Kosta

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 09:03 AM

He is a good attorney.

#7 chemical operator1

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 12:02 AM

I have hired Mike Donahue.....he talked about this case too. Didnt want to write up my case until this was published as precedent. Hopefully the outcome will be the same. FINGERS CROSSED!



#8 Penumbra1811

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 06:13 AM

I was also going to use Mike Donahue but the price kept going up so I'm using O'Brien instead. He wanted thousand dollars to appeal the ISP which I have already done it don't make sense to pay again for what I've already done. Originally it was much cheaper.

#9 chemical operator1

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 09:23 PM

Never heard of O'Brien. Where is he located? Hows your case going so far? Did you apply for a pardon, I heard the judge might deny if you havent exhausted ALL avenues...any truth to this?



#10 Molly B.

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 09:41 PM

The attorney general's office will most likely motion to dismiss on the basis that not all options have be exhausted. I mention that because it comes up a lot. You can go ahead and apply now and maybe argue in court that it could take years if ever to be granted a pardon???
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#11 Penumbra1811

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 07:39 PM

Waiting on my court date now. How can you exhaust all your options if ISP isn't taking care of it? Hopefully the Court will see it my way. I tried to get a pardon but was denied by Rauner. My case is identical to Pournaras.

Edited by Penumbra1811, 11 April 2019 - 07:50 PM.


#12 Kosta

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 09:02 AM

You must get an attorney because the isp will give you the run around. I won my case in the appellate court but the judgement has been sitting on the directors desk since feb 17 2019.

My attorney just sent a letter to the director giving them 14 days to respond or we are taking the isp to court for not abiding by a judges order to give me my Foid card.

So hopefully by June 1st i will know if im getting it back or taking them to court for refusing a court order.

#13 JTHunter

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Posted 04 May 2019 - 02:30 PM

Good luck Kosta.  The "acting director" is a real piece of work from St. Clair county.  He was the State's Attorney until he ran for Congress against Mike Bost ® and lost.  Naturally, the "powers that be" had to take care of a losing crony so he got appointed to the ISP.


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#14 Penumbra1811

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 10:10 AM

My court date is the 28 of May hopefully there will be no objections I have waited long enough and fit the criteria of getting my Foid. Only problem I see is them taking months to get it to me.

#15 chemical operator1

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 03:22 AM

My lawyer just filed my case the other day also. Hopefully have a day coming here in the near future. I hope Kosta sticks it to them for not following a judges order.If it were one of us that disregarded an order we would be found in contempt before we could blink an eye! On another note my case was 20 yrs ago for my felony. It was a Class 4 for possession/production of 5-20 canibus plants.  If they pass this legal marijuana law and include past offenders for sealing/expungement, I would be GOLDEN. Fingers crossed both ways.



#16 Kosta

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 04:08 AM

Well isp claims foid card was printed may 13th so im waiting to see how long till i recieve it in the mail.

#17 Molly B.

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 10:31 PM

Well isp claims foid card was printed may 13th so im waiting to see how long till i recieve it in the mail.

 

Cool!  Keep us posted!


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#18 Kosta

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 03:30 PM

Foid card came in today!


#19 Molly B.

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 03:37 PM

FANTASTIC!!!


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#20 Kosta

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 05:29 PM

FANTASTIC!!!


Thank you for all your help.

#21 chemical operator1

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 10:02 AM

AWESOME!!!

 

I just hope it actually works for what its intended for. Keep us posted when you go for a CCL class or a purchase. Ammo should be no issue, its the purchasing of the firearm that I am wondering about. But all in all CONGRATULATIONS!!



#22 JTHunter

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 10:03 PM

Congratulations Kosta.  Your perseverance has paid off.


“We, the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.” - - Abraham Lincoln

“Small minds adhere to the letter of the law; great minds dispense Justice.” - - S. C. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

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#23 Penumbra1811

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 06:27 AM

My Attorney called me yesterday about my court case this Tuesday on the 28th. Apparently the State's Attorney wants to dismiss my case because I don't have the denial letter from ISP from twenty years ago. I have contacted ISP and they don't have a copy and can't get the denial because everything has changed since then and I can't reapply. Just another reason to keep a law abiding citizen from having his rights restored. This is getting frustrating I have waited long enough no reason to deny me. Waiting to to hear back from Obrian.

#24 chemical operator1

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 06:23 AM

Its just a way for the SA to try anything to have it tossed, they dont have a leg to stand on. Good luck with your case. My lawsuit is filed and waiting for a court date. My attorney Mike Donahue had me apply before we filed to show the denial letter to the court.Wonder how you cannot re-apply. Its all online. Couldnt you just try re-applying online for your denial letter? Hopefully the date comes soon.


Edited by chemical operator1, 26 May 2019 - 06:33 AM.


#25 Penumbra1811

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 07:48 AM

Yea hopefully the judge doesn't throw it out and go along with the SA. Guess I could call ISP and see if I could reapply somehow but I doubt that they will let me.

#26 Penumbra1811

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 07:53 AM

Wonder what my chances are of the judge of throwing it out? I meet all requirements but the state doesn't want a ex felon who has turned his life around to own a firearm. Might have a better chance if I moved to a better state where I have a chance getting my rights restored.

#27 Molly B.

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 08:11 AM

Wonder what my chances are of the judge of throwing it out? I meet all requirements but the state doesn't want a ex felon who has turned his life around to own a firearm. Might have a better chance if I moved to a better state where I have a chance getting my rights restored.

 

 

Unfortunately, I believe most states require the person to get their rights restored in the state where they were convicted.


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#28 Penumbra1811

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 12:05 PM

I kind of figured that I just can't believe it's so hard for me to get them restored with something as long ago with nothing violent.

#29 Penumbra1811

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 10:48 AM

Went to court today and another date was set for 08/08/2019. The SA wanted my denial letter from ISP but we could not get and he simply stated without it the Judge didn't have jurisdiction on it. So my Attorney is going to try to contact ISP and see what can get done with them The SA said he didn't have a problem with me having a Foid just without the letter it would be a problem. Now I did call ISP and finally got through and my appeal is still under review and they have everything to get it done so its basically still a waiting game. On June first I can reapply for Foid so I called Attorney to let them know so I'm just waiting on instructions now. He says there shouldn't be any problems with getting my card it just the wait.

#30 Molly B.

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 01:27 PM

Went to court today and another date was set for 08/08/2019. The SA wanted my denial letter from ISP but we could not get and he simply stated without it the Judge didn't have jurisdiction on it. So my Attorney is going to try to contact ISP and see what can get done with them The SA said he didn't have a problem with me having a Foid just without the letter it would be a problem. Now I did call ISP and finally got through and my appeal is still under review and they have everything to get it done so its basically still a waiting game. On June first I can reapply for Foid so I called Attorney to let them know so I'm just waiting on instructions now. He says there shouldn't be any problems with getting my card it just the wait.

 

It is nearly impossible to get a copy the denial letter from that long ago or even a few years ago.  I have known people who sent a registered mail/signed receipt on delivery letter to the ISP Firearm Services Bureau and used the signed receipt and copy of the request to show they requested but could not get a copy of the denial letter.

 

A screenshot of the denial page might also be admissible?


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams




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