By appointment only requirement, gun dealers?

[technical]

My local dealer decided to lock his doors, disband his retail hours and go to "by appointment only".

 

He has a sign stating that this is a requirement or ramification of the new dealer licensing bills.

 

Can anyone shed some light on this? Is he able to skirt some requirements by doing this?

 

[InterestedBystander]

yes...retail locations have additional requirements for now e.g. video monitoring, safe storage approved plan, etc

 

e.g.

...On or before January 2, 2021, a certified licensee operating a retail location shall be required to operate and maintain, on the premises, in good working order a 24 hour, seven days a week, closed-circuit television video surveillance system that complies with the following minimum standards:...

 

lower fees: $300 vs $1500

 

...Certified licensees maintaining a retail location shall develop a written plan that addresses the safe storage of firearms and ammunition during retail hours and after closing....

[technical]

I know about the additional requirements but what do they gain by going appointment only?

 

Shop already has surveillance that will meet the requirements, roll door locking cases, multiple safes, bars on the windows, etc...

[Bubbacs]

What dealer?

[Glock23]

I know about the additional requirements but what do they gain by going appointment only?

 

Shop already has surveillance that will meet the requirements, roll door locking cases, multiple safes, bars on the windows, etc...

If they don't have posted retail hours (i.e., open 9am to 5pm), are they still a public FFL open for business?

 

Closing the doors and only accepting appointments may take care of that.

 

I recall before there was a home FFL who said he would still have to follow all the FFL business rules because he advertised and had business hours where people could come by for gunsmithing, transfers, etc.

[InterestedBystander]

They already have a 24x7x90 security video simultaneously backed up to off site and quality video covering faces, parking and license plates? That surprises me unless they are really small.

 

Not being a retail location reduces requirements which reduces costs to install and maintain the mandates.

 

EDIT: I may have been wrong. My first interpreration was by appt only removed retail classification but that may not be the case reading further.

 

The law 5-5 as passed says:

"Retail location" means a store open to the public from which a certified licensee engages in the business of selling, transferring, or facilitating a sale or transfer of a firearm. For purposes of this Act, the World Shooting and Recreational Complex, a gun show, or similar event at which a certified licensee engages in business from time to time is not a retail location.

 

Proposed JCAR rules say:

"Open to the Public" means that a certified licensee sells, leases or transfers firearms to the general public during regular business hours or by appointment only.

 

"Retail Location" means a store open to the public from which a certified licensee engages in the business of selling, transferring, or facilitating a sale or transfer of a firearm. For purposes of the Act, a gun show or similar event at which a certified licensee engages in business from time to time is not a retail location.

[technical]

They already have a 24x7x90 security video simultaneously vacked up to off site and quality video covering faces, parking and license plates? That surprises me unless they are really small.

 

When I spoke with the owner months ago he said the video requirements were not an issue what so ever.

 

 

[...]

 

lower fees: $300 vs $1500

 

[...]

 

Looked up what you mentioned, apparently it's $1,500 for a retail location and $300 for a closed, appointment only shop?

 

I fail to see where not being a retail location absolves you from anything other than a lower fee?

[InterestedBystander]

There is the safe storage requirements approved by ISP and video security as mentioned.

 

Have not rereviewed proposals, but as in my edited post above it looks like by appt only does not remove retail designation so in that case, not sure of any benefits.

[technical]

The Act defines a retail location as, "...a store open to the public from which a certified licensee engages in the business of selling, transferring, or facilitating a sale or transfer of a firearm..."

To help make this determination, here are three scenarios and how they would be defined:

1. A big box store open to the public during hours of operation with a displayed inventory where the public can purchase and receive transfers of firearms. This is a RETAIL location.

2. A residential dealer who has a designated area within his or her home, such as a garage or separate area, wherein during hours of operation, the public is able to come into this area to make purchases and receive transfers. This is a RETAIL location.

3. A residential dealer who is not open to the general public, who conducts firearm transfers with individuals known to the dealer or who sets appointments for firearms transfers. This is a NON-RETAIL location.

 

 

$300 for a non-retail location, $1,500 for a retail location.

 

 

 

On or before January 2, 2020, each certified licensee maintaining an inventory of firearms for sale or transfer must be connected to an alarm monitoring system or service that will notify its local law enforcement agency of an unauthorized intrusion into the premises of the licensee where the firearm inventory is maintained. (430 ILCS 68/5-50©)

On or before January 2, 2021, each certified licensee operating a retail location in this State must maintain a video security system and shall maintain video surveillance of critical areas of the business premises, including, but not limited to, all places where firearms in inventory are stored, handled, sold, or transferred, and each entrance and exit. A video surveillance system of the certified licensee's retail location may not be installed in a bathroom and may not monitor inside the bathrooms located in the retail location. (430 ILCS 68/5-50)

Also, each certified licensee operating a retail establishment in this State must post a sign in a conspicuous place at each entrance to the retail location that states in block letters not less than one inch in height: "THESE PREMISES ARE UNDER VIDEO SURVEILLANCE. YOUR IMAGE MAY BE RECORDED." This sign shall be created by the Department and available for printing or downloading from the Department's website. (430 ILCS 68/5-50( )

 

 

On or before January 2, 2020, each certified licensee operating a retail location shall implement an electronic-based record system to keep track of its changing inventory by updating the make, model, caliber or gauge, and serial number of each firearm that is received or sold by the certified licensee. Each certified licensee shall maintain these records for a period of no less than the time period under 27 CFR 478.129 or any subsequent law that regulates the retention of records. (430 ILCS 68/5-65)

[Sweeper13]

Maybe hes just sick of it all and wants to take a break. He could be looking for a house in Florida in the mean time. This is what Willis and company wanted and now you are feeling it.

[cope]

Or maybe hes not making any money anyhow and the $300 was all he had. Doing appointment only and selling a few guns a year satisfies the federal requirements for FFL (Not just doing it for personal transactions). Why else would you shutter a business 15 months before a law effects it?

[Nanook]

There's an old saw about gun stores. "How do you make a million dollars running a gun store?" "Start with two million."

 

This stuff will go a long way to making that old saw come true, which is no doubt the idea.

 

The margins aren't as large as some may think, and it won't take much to tip the scale in the direction of closing or moving the store.

[technical]

Or maybe hes not making any money anyhow and the $300 was all he had. Doing appointment only and selling a few guns a year satisfies the federal requirements for FFL (Not just doing it for personal transactions). Why else would you shutter a business 15 months before a law effects it?

Kind of my thought as well but if you're going to have a fully stocked store, why not have retail hours.

 

If the extra $1,200 is going to break you, you shouldn't be in business anyways.

 

Then again it's the kind of shop that sells a used Glock 22 for $500 when you can buy them all day for $300.

 

I'm guessing he will start listing his entire inventory on gunbroker perpetually until it sells.

 

Half of my gun purchases were walk in, spur of the moment buys because they were good deals. If I can't stroll in, I have no reason to go there, plenty of other places around.