Winchester Ranger 9mm, defense ammo

[junglebob]

I'd like some opinions on the Winchester Ranger, RA9115HP+ as a defense round. These are marked Law Enforcement Ammunition and I understand they are a good round. I am sure there are .45 rounds that are better and I don't want to start a caliber war. I talked with a LEO friend and he seemed to think they were good, though he is issued Federal ammo. He said there is a long wait for them to get ammo, BTW.

[1957Human]

Considered to be acceptible by experts:

 

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_...Q/index.htm#9mm

[anonymous too]

I like the hydra shocks, but I think I'm going to Hornady's Critical Defense ammo.

 

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=786

[pyre400]

I like the hydra shocks, but I think I'm going to Hornady's Critical Defense ammo.

 

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=786

 

That's what I keep in the home defence pistol..

 

They use a stubby cartridge (115 grain) - they still seem to feed fine though. (I don't have 100's of rounds of experience with them yet, unfortunately they are pretty pricey)

 

I wish they'd offer a larger grain ftx for 9mm to make up for the short case. Then again, I'm no ballistics expert and there's probably a reason why they chose to go with a short case/115 grn.

[GarandFan]

As far as Rangers go, I recall reading that 127 grain +P+ have the best terminal ballistics, particularly out of full-size guns. If you get it, make sure you get the T-series ammo, not the "Ranger" marketed to non-LE. It has the talon bullets, except they are not black, and they are not called talon.

 

It's the "RA9TA" in this catalog. It's what I keep in my CZ75. I use it because in a defensive situation, "it's what the police use ... so it must be good for self-defense."

 

http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/p...t%20Catalog.pdf

 

 

And "stubby" or "short-case" 9mm? I have not heard of that, unless you are talking about 9mm makarov, or .380 (9mm "short").

[hotpig27]

These are the old ISP rounds. You can also find Federals version of it the 9BPLE for about 17.00 per 50 rounds.

[junglebob]

These are the old ISP rounds. You can also find Federals version of it the 9BPLE for about 17.00 per 50 rounds.

The Winchester Ranger Ammo I have is RA9115HP+ which is a different animal than mentioned apparently. This reminds me of when me and my wife went to buy a washing machine and dryer and coffee maker. Each time we looked up the items in Consumer Reports. They gave the model numbers tested of different brands but when we went to buy we couldn't find these model numbers, usually numbers that were close. Were they basically the same we assumed so and bought them. Any one know of a test done on the specific round I bought? If the rounds mentioned are available locally I sure don't know where. I'm sure I'd probably just get dumb looks if I asked for those mentioned, maybe I need to look in another state.

 

I guess I mistakenly thought that the Ranger ammo marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition" was what I wanted. Was this specific round used in the past by ISP or another agency or is the "Law Enforcement Ammunition" marking just a marketing ploy?

[GarandFan]

Go to gun stores and look at their "Ranger" ammunition for Law Enforcement. It is the civilian stuff. The T-series (my hunch is that it's named for "Talon") is different. The "petals" on the jacketing material are long and pointy. You can find it around, but generally it's not marketed directly to we mere citizens. Jerry Kirkpatrick out of Florida used to sell it ... anyway, that's where I got mine.

 

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d11/choochboost/1085fda4.jpg

 

http://i29.tinypic.com/282dpvq.jpg

 

The non-T Ranger doesn't have the pointy petals. They are much shorter, and rounded. Just look inside the hollow point cavity (meplat) and you can see the difference.

[junglebob]

Well I checked with a gun store about the Hornady Critical Defense ammo and was told the Hornady rep said that the factory is 6 to 8 months behind and the store had none in 9mm. Garandfan, can you PM me on how I might contact Jerry Kirkpatrick? Knowing someone who sells and actually has the ammo would be really useful. The local shop I called did have Gold dots in 147gr.

[hotpig27]

Many people do not realize that Ranger is a whole product line of ammo. Just pistol ammo is 34 loads not counting their rifle and shotgun ammo.

 

Jerry is like me and every other Ranger dealer. We do not have much and do not expect to see much in the next few months to a year.

 

ISP used the RA9115HP+ and the 9BPLE for twenty plus years before changing to the Glock 40 and the RA40T ammo.

[junglebob]

Many people do not realize that Ranger is a whole product line of ammo. Just pistol ammo is 34 loads not counting their rifle and shotgun ammo.

 

Jerry is like me and every other Ranger dealer. We do not have much and do not expect to see much in the next few months to a year.

 

ISP used the RA9115HP+ and the 9BPLE for twenty plus years before changing to the Glock 40 and the RA40T ammo.

Thanks for that info hotpig27. I assume if they used it for that long it worked pretty well. I tend to be thrifty, some would say "tighter than the bark on a tree" and would like to have something that I can be reasonably confident of. I read a suggestion by someone that us put 100 rounds of your chosen personal defense ammo thru your gun before using it for carry. I don't like the idea of doing that with a round quite a bit more expensive than Remington FMJ or such only to find out it isn't available or really isn't an effective round.

 

I can understand how personal defense ammo could be in short supply when even 9mm FMJ isn't available in good supply.

 

Hotpig27, is RA9115HP+ a round you have in stock or can get easier?

[hotpig27]

Many people do not realize that Ranger is a whole product line of ammo. Just pistol ammo is 34 loads not counting their rifle and shotgun ammo.

 

Jerry is like me and every other Ranger dealer. We do not have much and do not expect to see much in the next few months to a year.

 

ISP used the RA9115HP+ and the 9BPLE for twenty plus years before changing to the Glock 40 and the RA40T ammo.

Thanks for that info hotpig27. I assume if they used it for that long it worked pretty well. I tend to be thrifty, some would say "tighter than the bark on a tree" and would like to have something that I can be reasonably confident of. I read a suggestion by someone that us put 100 rounds of your chosen personal defense ammo thru your gun before using it for carry. I don't like the idea of doing that with a round quite a bit more expensive than Remington FMJ or such only to find out it isn't available or really isn't an effective round.

 

I can understand how personal defense ammo could be in short supply when even 9mm FMJ isn't available in good supply.

 

Hotpig27, is RA9115HP+ a round you have in stock or can get easier?

I have not had it in stock since Feb. I do not expect any large quantity of any ammo until 2010 or 2011.

[GarandFan]

... would like to have something that I can be reasonably confident of. I read a suggestion by someone that us put 100 rounds of your chosen personal defense ammo thru your gun before using it for carry.

 

Honestly, there is a great deal of discussion about terminal ballistics, what is the "best" defensive round, etc., and etc., ad infinitum. It comes down to shot placement, and the confidence you have at delivering those. Pick any of the standard hollow-point defensive rounds, and you will be just fine, as long as you can competently and confidently place rounds where you want them, when you want them there.

 

And yes ... running personal defense ammo through your personal defense firearm to test function, reliability, and shot placement is crucial ... if people decide not to do that in order to save a few bucks, IMO, they have their priorities out of whack.

[Xwing]

I like the hydra shocks, but I think I'm going to Hornady's Critical Defense ammo.

 

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=786

That’s what I use. I have it loaded up currently in my 9mm, but it’s still on order for my .357.

 

Well I checked with a gun store about the Hornady Critical Defense ammo and was told the Hornady rep said that the factory is 6 to 8 months behind and the store had none in 9mm. Garandfan, can you PM me on how I might contact Jerry Kirkpatrick? Knowing someone who sells and actually has the ammo would be really useful. The local shop I called did have Gold dots in 147gr.

I found it in-stock at Mega-sports in Plainfield. It was a little bit overpriced, but they had plenty in stock. (I think I paid ~$25 for a box of 25 rounds.) If you need it quickly, that’s the place to go. They seem to usually have everything in stock, as long as you’re willing to pay a couple extra bucks to get it.

[pyre400]

As far as Rangers go, I recall reading that 127 grain +P+ have the best terminal ballistics, particularly out of full-size guns. If you get it, make sure you get the T-series ammo, not the "Ranger" marketed to non-LE. It has the talon bullets, except they are not black, and they are not called talon.

 

And "stubby" or "short-case" 9mm? I have not heard of that, unless you are talking about 9mm makarov, or .380 (9mm "short").

 

Thanks Garand

 

I did a poor job of explaining, but I was not referring to .380.

 

The hornady CD cartridge is short. I think the bullet is recessed inside of the case a little more.

 

I measured both, FMJ target load, and the Hornady CD:

WWB 115 = 1.156"

Hornady FTX 115 = 1.080"

 

It seemed to me that they could fit a little more propellant, a larger round, or both. As you point out though, the ballistics look better on paper for the CD 115 compared to the TAP 147 (330 vs 310). I got a few boxes when they came out (was sold on some of the data I found on the web). I purchased the last 3 boxes, and only shot 55 rounds (50 at the indoor, and 5 at the outdoor). They all cycled without a problem, despite the shorter cartridge, but I intend to shoot more as I cycle through "old" ammo - question is how much until its "reliable"?

 

Anyhow, here's a photo I took that shows the difference in length - do you know the length of your Ranger-T's? (Talon is legendary, maybe I'll go with those):

 

[GarandFan]

Anyhow, here's a photo I took that shows the difference in length - do you know the length of your Ranger-T's? (Talon is legendary, maybe I'll go with those):

 

OAL on my Ranger Ts (RA9TA) is 1.12".