bfreeman Posted March 3, 2015 at 01:57 AM Share Posted March 3, 2015 at 01:57 AM http://bearingarms.com/atfs-armor-piercing-ammo-ban-may-spectacularly-backfire-renew-interest-military-style-rifles/ With many congressmen and senators getting on board to oppose the ban the best bet may be with congressman Roony's HR1180 bill "protecting second ammendment rights act". By something as simple as changing the definition of armor piercing thereby blocking ATF from banning common rifle caliber bullets now and in the future. Also many banned bullets could be removed from the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC Stu Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:21 AM Share Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:21 AM I hope that it does fall flat on its face! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kk5 Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:27 AM Share Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:27 AM I hope that it does fall flat on its face!Does a back flip and another face plant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BShawn Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:37 AM Share Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:37 AM Good news! http://www.gocurrycracker.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/cm-23138-050624abe3a9e6.jpeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgantron Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:43 AM Share Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:43 AM Somehow I just don't see a good outcome to this. I mean lets see, no stance on immigration, no stance on obamacare, the FCC just seized control of the internet, and this...I am suppose to believe that this they are going to get right. heck no, don't believe it. This opposition was expected and the counter move is already in place. 2 more years of this yahoo, I promise there will be something huge in terms of gun control before he leaves office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScopeEye Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:48 AM Share Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:48 AM · Hidden by Lou, March 3, 2015 at 03:40 AM - Skirting obscenity filter. Hidden by Lou, March 3, 2015 at 03:40 AM - Skirting obscenity filter. FBHO Link to comment
TomKoz Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:55 AM Share Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:55 AM o bama will just issue an Executive Order banning ALL ammo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfreeman Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:57 AM Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 at 02:57 AM · Hidden by Lou, March 3, 2015 at 03:41 AM - No reason given Hidden by Lou, March 3, 2015 at 03:41 AM - No reason given FBHOFederation of black housing opportunities?? Oh wait! I get it. Lol Link to comment
DoverGunner Posted March 3, 2015 at 04:08 AM Share Posted March 3, 2015 at 04:08 AM Hope it does as well .The thing that bothers me is everyone keeps saying the 62 SS109 is the most common and the cheapest used bullet for the AR15 . I thought the most common and cheapest was just 55gr FMJ (Ball) . I never liked the 62gr myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragsbo Posted March 3, 2015 at 04:14 AM Share Posted March 3, 2015 at 04:14 AM http://bearingarms.com/atfs-armor-piercing-ammo-ban-may-spectacularly-backfire-renew-interest-military-style-rifles/ With many congressmen and senators getting on board to oppose the ban the best bet may be with congressman Roony's HR1180 bill "protecting second ammendment rights act". By something as simple as changing the definition of armor piercing thereby blocking ATF from banning common rifle caliber bullets now and in the future. Also many banned bullets could be removed from the list.It would take obmamama's signature to become law would it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Fudd Posted March 3, 2015 at 04:23 AM Share Posted March 3, 2015 at 04:23 AM There is a very interesting case in existence that has caused trouble for an agency of the Treasury before in connection with this type of an issue in Woods Investment v. US 85 TC 274, 281 (T.C. 1985) which deals with consolidated tax returns which is an area that are entirely governed by what is referred to as "Legislative Regulations". This is the important language from the opinion: If respondent believes that his regulations and section 312 (k) together cause petitioner to receive a "double deduction," then respondent should use his broad power to amend his regulations. See Henry C. Beck Builders, Inc. v. Commissioner, 41 T.C. 616, 628(1964). Since respondent has not taken steps to amend his regulations, we believe his apparent reluctance to use his broad power in this area does not justify judicial interference in what is essentially a legislative and administrative matter. Henry C. Beck Builders, Inc. v. Commissioner, supra (Drennen, J., concurring at page 633). An understanding of the context of the opinion requires a bit deeper understanding of the distinction between legislative and interpretive regulations issued by a government agency, in this case the Internal Revenue Service as a Treasury Agency, the interpretation is equally applicable to BATFE. The Administrative Procedure Act (APA) exempts interpretative rules from the APA’s notice and comment requirements. Generally, rules or statements issued by an agency to advise the public of the agency’s construction of the statutes it administers are considered interpretative. Most IRS/Treasury regulations are considered interpretative because the underlying statute implemented by the regulation contains the necessary legal authority for the action taken and any effect of the regulation flows directly from that statute. See CCDM [iRS Chief Counsel Directives Manual "CCDM"] 32.1.1.2.7 and CCDM 32.1.1.2.8, below, and CCDM 32.1.5.4.7.5.1(2), Administrative Procedure Act, for further discussion on whether a regulation is interpretive or legislative. Regulations required to follow the APA's notice and comment procedure are referred to as legislative rules or substantive rules. Legislative rules are required when Congress simply provided an end result, without any guidance as to how to achieve the desired goal or when a statutory provision does not provide adequate authority for the regulatory action taken. Whether a regulation is promulgated under a specific grant of authority in the the does not govern whether the regulation is interpretative or legislative. If Congress simply provided end result, without any guidance as to how to achieve the desired goal, then regulations promulgated to achieve that goal are considered to be legislative. If Congress provided specific rules and merely left gaps for the Secretary to fill, regulations filling those gaps are considered interpretative. If the regulation repeats law subsumed in the underlying legislation, then the regulation is considered interpretative. The bottom line to all of this is that in the case of dealing with M855 BATFE is actually very vulnerable in trying to create new regulations that seek to apply existing regulations in a fashion which is contrary to the way they were originally promulgated or have been used for an extended period of time. The problem that exists at the moment is that it appears that the people on our side of the issue haven't focused upon this analysis because of its highly archane and technical nature. I have had a discussion on the topic with an exceptionally skilled attorney I know that has 40 years of experience in litigating these types of issues and let's say it was a very entertaining discussion. If I can get some time away from being buried in tax returns, I may try to share this with a few of the 2A attorneys that I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlJ Posted March 4, 2015 at 04:32 PM Share Posted March 4, 2015 at 04:32 PM We need to make a big enough stink with congress so they block this problem. We have quite a bit of support right now but we need more. Here is part of an email from GOA: Contact your senator and Demand that they oppose the Lynch nomination, and do everything in their power to get the ammunition ban reversed. (2) Contact the NRA if you are an NRA member. Urge them to come out in strong opposition to the Loretta Lynch nomination. You can contact the NRA via their webform or call them at: 1-800-672-3888 or 1-800-392-8683. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Fudd Posted March 4, 2015 at 04:46 PM Share Posted March 4, 2015 at 04:46 PM · Hidden by mauserme, March 4, 2015 at 06:01 PM - No reason given Hidden by mauserme, March 4, 2015 at 06:01 PM - No reason given Whoa!!!! The nomination of Loretta Lynch to be the next Attorney General has already been approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee. A vote on the nomination has been pushed back a week as the Senate Republican Leadership is attempting to use it as a point of leverage in connection with the Immigration provisions for DHS to challenge Obama's executive orders. The notion that the GOP members of the Senate would seek to ransom the AG nomination over the M855 issue is beyond fantasy.....to the point that it lacks credibility. While the M855 issue may be very important to some people within a forum like this one, it doesn't even hit the radar of the majority of those that would identify themselves as Republicans. If you are inclined to contact your elected representatives over the M855 issue wonderful....trying to use the M855 issue to block an AG confirmation when there are much bigger fish like immigration makes you look like a "Branch Man"...and if you aren't familiar with the term "Branch Man"....think of the expression about "not being able to see the forest for the trees" a Branch Man would be someone that is someone that is an entire order of magnitude more micro-focused...they type with issues that get outright ignored. Link to comment
gearsmithy Posted March 5, 2015 at 06:22 PM Share Posted March 5, 2015 at 06:22 PM Anything short of disbanding the ATF is a half measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Fudd Posted March 5, 2015 at 06:23 PM Share Posted March 5, 2015 at 06:23 PM Anything short of disbanding the ATF is a half measure.Well....that one isn't going to happen in any of our lifetimes.....so might as well get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awan Posted March 6, 2015 at 03:04 AM Share Posted March 6, 2015 at 03:04 AM I'm not certain, but I think I found the problem with the Republican leadership: http://www.thegailygrind.com/2015/03/02/preacher-convinces-400-men-cut-off-testicles-become-closer-god/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoverGunner Posted March 6, 2015 at 03:51 AM Share Posted March 6, 2015 at 03:51 AM I'm not certain, but I think I found the problem with the Republican leadership: http://www.thegailygrind.com/2015/03/02/preacher-convinces-400-men-cut-off-testicles-become-closer-god/I have too agree . The Republicans must have signed up for that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobPistol Posted March 6, 2015 at 11:51 AM Share Posted March 6, 2015 at 11:51 AM I'm not certain, but I think I found the problem with the Republican leadership: http://www.thegailygrind.com/2015/03/02/preacher-convinces-400-men-cut-off-testicles-become-closer-god/ That explains why Boehner was crying all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted March 6, 2015 at 11:33 PM Share Posted March 6, 2015 at 11:33 PM If you still have green tips you may already be a felon. http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borgranta Posted March 7, 2015 at 02:35 AM Share Posted March 7, 2015 at 02:35 AM What is the ATF going to do about the M855 currently being sold by Walmart stores? Are they going to be raiding Walmarts and gunning down Walmart employees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacerDave6 Posted March 7, 2015 at 03:39 AM Share Posted March 7, 2015 at 03:39 AM If you still have green tips you may already be a felon. http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761ATF says it was an error in printing.http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Library/Publications/notice_of_publishing_error.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Posted March 7, 2015 at 03:59 AM Share Posted March 7, 2015 at 03:59 AM If you still have green tips you may already be a felon.http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761 ATF says it was an error in printing.http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Library/Publications/notice_of_publishing_error.pdf I can't help but think that ATF and the administration thought they could just slip this one in without any of us catching it. This so-called " publishing error" means that they were caught and this administration will never admit they are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted March 7, 2015 at 04:06 AM Share Posted March 7, 2015 at 04:06 AM So, they're going to reprint the manuals and pass them out again, right? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googe1227 Posted March 7, 2015 at 04:26 AM Share Posted March 7, 2015 at 04:26 AM Publishing error my butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plinkermostly Posted March 7, 2015 at 12:48 PM Share Posted March 7, 2015 at 12:48 PM But . . . that looks sort of like . . . well, that they lied! (Again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.