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#1 mwb9122

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:24 AM

Anyone here a FFL that isn't a store? I have a few questions regarding submitting an application to run it out of my residence.

 

Was it a hassle?

Did they visit?

Is it $200 every 3 years to renew?



#2 Xwing

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:35 AM

Anyone here a FFL that isn't a store? I have a few questions regarding submitting an application to run it out of my residence.

 

Was it a hassle?

Did they visit?

Is it $200 every 3 years to renew?

 

I haven't done it myself, but have worked with "kitchen table" FFLs several times.  It's pretty common.  Whether you can make enough doing transfers or sales to cover the $200 and the additional hassle / paperwork is an individual question. :)  But hopefully SB1657 (or similar) won't pass next year, as it will add significantly to the cost and effort.


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#3 Mick G

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:16 AM

Anyone here a FFL that isn't a store? I have a few questions regarding submitting an application to run it out of my residence.

 

Was it a hassle?

Did they visit?

Is it $200 every 3 years to renew?

 

Just like Xwing I work with one retired guy who does everything by the book. Evidently there is a ATF field office in Downers Grove and he gets his answers to questions there. The ATF have never been to his house. I did ask him that.

 

Judging by what he says it is not a hassle at all and he makes WELL over whatever the licensing fee is. He's a very laid back guy and tries to take care of everything during the day on weekends. He's on the preferred lists of a lot of online gun stores, charges $25 per transfer and I'm pretty sure he makes the $200 back in two weekends. I would imagine you would have some "customers" who are going to be a PITA but I keep him informed through Emails of what's up. We set up a window and then he'll call me. If he's busy I'm in and out, if not we shoot the breeze.  



#4 mwb9122

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:24 AM

I'm sure that's the case with any type of business one opens. I don't see it being a hassle to recoop the $200 every 3 years with transfers. Just trying to make it a little easier for trusted friends/family to buy firearms online.

 

Anyone here a FFL that isn't a store? I have a few questions regarding submitting an application to run it out of my residence.

 

Was it a hassle?

Did they visit?

Is it $200 every 3 years to renew?

 

Just like Xwing I work with one retired guy who does everything by the book. Evidently there is a ATF field office in Downers Grove and he gets his answers to questions there. The ATF have never been to his house. I did ask him that.

 

Judging by what he says it is not a hassle at all and he makes WELL over whatever the licensing fee is. He's a very laid back guy and tries to take care of everything during the day on weekends. He's on the preferred lists of a lot of online gun stores, charges $25 per transfer and I'm pretty sure he makes the $200 back in two weekends. I would imagine you would have some "customers" who are going to be a PITA but I keep him informed through Emails of what's up. We set up a window and then he'll call me. If he's busy I'm in and out, if not we shoot the breeze.  

 



#5 409gary

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:02 AM

Anyone here a FFL that isn't a store? I have a few questions regarding submitting an application to run it out of my residence.

 

Was it a hassle?

Did they visit?

Is it $200 every 3 years to renew?

I did exactly what you are considering.  The answer to your questions is:

Was it a hassle?   Yes, it was a hassle, and it is designed to be that way.  You must be very exact in completing the application,

                              finger print cards, zoning issues, local law enforcement notification, etc.  Since you are required to operate

                             as a business, you will need to register with the Illinois Department of Revenue.  Also, if you seek to limit

                             exposure of non-business assets to potential law suits, you will need to apply for status as an Illinois LLC

                             or corporation.  The Secy of State charges a minimum of $600 for an LLC certificate, and $250 annually to

                             to maintain the status.  I am just speculating here, but I don't believe the ATF particularly likes home based

                             FFLs for some reason, even though there are still many out there.  That may just have been the unstated

                             Obama directive in prior years, and I hope it has changed with the last election.

Did they visit?      Yes, an ATF industry specialist will make a personal visit and examine the location set forth in the application.

                             The adequacy of security and record keeping forms and record storage will be assessed.  If deficient, needed 

                             corrections will be proposed before the license is issued.  They will provide you with Federal Firearms Reference

                             Guide which contains examples of what type of A&D record (AKA the Bound Book) you must maintain.  You

                             will need buy or prepare your own sales and accounting records that you intend to use as you may be asked to

                             show them to the ATF specialist.  My visit took about 2 hours and no corrective action was recommended.  

                             My license was issued about 30 days after the visit.

Is it $200 every 3

years to renew?   No, an 01-FFL renewal is currently $90. 


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#6 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:29 AM

 

Anyone here a FFL that isn't a store? I have a few questions regarding submitting an application to run it out of my residence.

 

Was it a hassle?

Did they visit?

Is it $200 every 3 years to renew?

I did exactly what you are considering.  The answer to your questions is:

Was it a hassle?   Yes, it was a hassle, and it is designed to be that way.  You must be very exact in completing the application,

                              finger print cards, zoning issues, local law enforcement notification, etc.  Since you are required to operate

                             as a business, you will need to register with the Illinois Department of Revenue.  Also, if you seek to limit

                             exposure of non-business assets to potential law suits, you will need to apply for status as an Illinois LLC

                             or corporation.  The Secy of State charges a minimum of $600 for an LLC certificate, and $250 annually to

                             to maintain the status.  I am just speculating here, but I don't believe the ATF particularly likes home based

                             FFLs for some reason, even though there are still many out there.  That may just have been the unstated

                             Obama directive in prior years, and I hope it has changed with the last election.

Did they visit?      Yes, an ATF industry specialist will make a personal visit and examine the location set forth in the application.

                             The adequacy of security and record keeping forms and record storage will be assessed.  If deficient, needed 

                             corrections will be proposed before the license is issued.  They will provide you with Federal Firearms Reference

                             Guide which contains examples of what type of A&D record (AKA the Bound Book) you must maintain.  You

                             will need buy or prepare your own sales and accounting records that you intend to use as you may be asked to

                             show them to the ATF specialist.  My visit took about 2 hours and no corrective action was recommended.  

                             My license was issued about 30 days after the visit.

Is it $200 every 3

years to renew?   No, an 01-FFL renewal is currently $90. 

 

 

This is some very useful information. I have considered doing this myself, for a number of personal reasons.

 

However, you can get around a lot of the costs, including the initial setup and high yearly costs for an individual LLc, by setting up a series LLC, which will then allow additional LLCs under the main LLC for I believe $50 for the setup cost, as well as bundling the renewal cost of all the LLCs under the series for the one yearly fee of $250. If you already have a business, such as a rental property, that requires LLC protection, then it might be advantageous to look into setting up a series LLC that you can also do the FFL under a subsequent series sub-LLC.


“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

Gb1XExdm.jpg
 
 

 
 
 
 


#7 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:33 AM

 

Anyone here a FFL that isn't a store? I have a few questions regarding submitting an application to run it out of my residence.

 

Was it a hassle?

Did they visit?

Is it $200 every 3 years to renew?

I did exactly what you are considering.  The answer to your questions is:

Was it a hassle?   Yes, it was a hassle, and it is designed to be that way.  You must be very exact in completing the application,

                              finger print cards, zoning issues, local law enforcement notification, etc.  Since you are required to operate

                             as a business, you will need to register with the Illinois Department of Revenue.  Also, if you seek to limit

                             exposure of non-business assets to potential law suits, you will need to apply for status as an Illinois LLC

                             or corporation.  The Secy of State charges a minimum of $600 for an LLC certificate, and $250 annually to

                             to maintain the status.  I am just speculating here, but I don't believe the ATF particularly likes home based

                             FFLs for some reason, even though there are still many out there.  That may just have been the unstated

                             Obama directive in prior years, and I hope it has changed with the last election.

Did they visit?      Yes, an ATF industry specialist will make a personal visit and examine the location set forth in the application.

                             The adequacy of security and record keeping forms and record storage will be assessed.  If deficient, needed 

                             corrections will be proposed before the license is issued.  They will provide you with Federal Firearms Reference

                             Guide which contains examples of what type of A&D record (AKA the Bound Book) you must maintain.  You

                             will need buy or prepare your own sales and accounting records that you intend to use as you may be asked to

                             show them to the ATF specialist.  My visit took about 2 hours and no corrective action was recommended.  

                             My license was issued about 30 days after the visit.

Is it $200 every 3

years to renew?   No, an 01-FFL renewal is currently $90. 

 

 

Also, where can one get a copy of these beforehand so that one can set up the FFL record keeping and security required to standard, prior to actually applying for the FFL? It would be very helpful to have that information so that it could be demonstrated that due diligence was taken to be in compliance before submitting an application for the FFL.


“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

Gb1XExdm.jpg
 
 

 
 
 
 


#8 409gary

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:00 PM

 

 

Anyone here a FFL that isn't a store? I have a few questions regarding submitting an application to run it out of my residence.

 

Was it a hassle?

Did they visit?

Is it $200 every 3 years to renew?

I did exactly what you are considering.  The answer to your questions is:

Was it a hassle?   Yes, it was a hassle, and it is designed to be that way.  You must be very exact in completing the application,

                              finger print cards, zoning issues, local law enforcement notification, etc.  Since you are required to operate

                             as a business, you will need to register with the Illinois Department of Revenue.  Also, if you seek to limit

                             exposure of non-business assets to potential law suits, you will need to apply for status as an Illinois LLC

                             or corporation.  The Secy of State charges a minimum of $600 for an LLC certificate, and $250 annually to

                             to maintain the status.  I am just speculating here, but I don't believe the ATF particularly likes home based

                             FFLs for some reason, even though there are still many out there.  That may just have been the unstated

                             Obama directive in prior years, and I hope it has changed with the last election.

Did they visit?      Yes, an ATF industry specialist will make a personal visit and examine the location set forth in the application.

                             The adequacy of security and record keeping forms and record storage will be assessed.  If deficient, needed 

                             corrections will be proposed before the license is issued.  They will provide you with Federal Firearms Reference

                             Guide which contains examples of what type of A&D record (AKA the Bound Book) you must maintain.  You

                             will need buy or prepare your own sales and accounting records that you intend to use as you may be asked to

                             show them to the ATF specialist.  My visit took about 2 hours and no corrective action was recommended.  

                             My license was issued about 30 days after the visit.

Is it $200 every 3

years to renew?   No, an 01-FFL renewal is currently $90. 

 

 

Also, where can one get a copy of these beforehand so that one can set up the FFL record keeping and security required to standard, prior to actually applying for the FFL? It would be very helpful to have that information so that it could be demonstrated that due diligence was taken to be in compliance before submitting an application for the FFL.

 

Just google "home based ffl requirements" and "ffl acquisition & disposition book", "ffl safe storage requirements", and "ffl record keeping requirements" just to name a few.  Beware of those who would like to sell you a prepackaged "ffl kit" to aid in your preparation.  While it may be useful, it would be a waste of

your money because you can do without it.  The A & D book sold by certain vendors is very useful and is set up in accordance with the ffl requirements.

You will learn a lot just from researching various sites.  Some web sites will explain each phase of the application process and highlight the pitfalls

that you should avoid.  A little searching will provide a lot of helpful information. 

You should find most of what you need to know on the web.  


Federal Firearms Licensee

Member: 2nd Amend Foundation-Life Member

Member: NRA Benefactor-Life Member

Member: National Shooting Sports Foundation

Member: Illinois State Rifle Association

Member: Browning Collectors Association

US Army, Second Armored Division


#9 3ddiver

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:46 PM

409 pretty much nailed it. I have been inspected as a field audit also. A little unnerving but all of my stuff is by the book period and there were no problems.I have renewed twice now and the renewal is simply a matter of paperwork. Would I recommend it? Depends. Remember that it is a hassle and the ATF can come to your house at any time.

#10 409gary

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:16 PM

 

 

Anyone here a FFL that isn't a store? I have a few questions regarding submitting an application to run it out of my residence.

 

Was it a hassle?

Did they visit?

Is it $200 every 3 years to renew?

I did exactly what you are considering.  The answer to your questions is:

Was it a hassle?   Yes, it was a hassle, and it is designed to be that way.  You must be very exact in completing the application,

                              finger print cards, zoning issues, local law enforcement notification, etc.  Since you are required to operate

                             as a business, you will need to register with the Illinois Department of Revenue.  Also, if you seek to limit

                             exposure of non-business assets to potential law suits, you will need to apply for status as an Illinois LLC

                             or corporation.  The Secy of State charges a minimum of $600 for an LLC certificate, and $250 annually to

                             to maintain the status.  I am just speculating here, but I don't believe the ATF particularly likes home based

                             FFLs for some reason, even though there are still many out there.  That may just have been the unstated

                             Obama directive in prior years, and I hope it has changed with the last election.

Did they visit?      Yes, an ATF industry specialist will make a personal visit and examine the location set forth in the application.

                             The adequacy of security and record keeping forms and record storage will be assessed.  If deficient, needed 

                             corrections will be proposed before the license is issued.  They will provide you with Federal Firearms Reference

                             Guide which contains examples of what type of A&D record (AKA the Bound Book) you must maintain.  You

                             will need buy or prepare your own sales and accounting records that you intend to use as you may be asked to

                             show them to the ATF specialist.  My visit took about 2 hours and no corrective action was recommended.  

                             My license was issued about 30 days after the visit.

Is it $200 every 3

years to renew?   No, an 01-FFL renewal is currently $90. 

 

 

Also, where can one get a copy of these beforehand so that one can set up the FFL record keeping and security required to standard, prior to actually applying for the FFL? It would be very helpful to have that information so that it could be demonstrated that due diligence was taken to be in compliance before submitting an application for the FFL.

 

I forgot to mention that you should get a copy of the ATF publication "Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide".  There are some things in there

that will not apply to your 01-FFL license, but for the most part, you will need to know everything in the book.  It is not the easiest reading, and it is not

organized in a way I would like, but it is in the typical Federal style of writing, so you just have to get used to it.  My guide is dated 2005, so there may

be a later dated Guide available.  In any event, if you will need the Guide, sooner or later.   


Federal Firearms Licensee

Member: 2nd Amend Foundation-Life Member

Member: NRA Benefactor-Life Member

Member: National Shooting Sports Foundation

Member: Illinois State Rifle Association

Member: Browning Collectors Association

US Army, Second Armored Division


#11 InterestedBystander

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 05:13 PM

Publications

https://www.atf.gov/...g_group_ref=All

Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide - 2014 Edition (ATF P 5300.4) (3512 KB)

https://www.atf.gov/.../11241/download

The 2014 edition of the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide contains information that will help you comply with Federal laws and regulations governing the manufacture, importation and distribution of firearms and ammunition. This edition contains new and amended statutes enacted since publication of the 2005 edition, as well as updated regulations and rulings issued by ATF.

Edited by InterestedBystander, 13 November 2017 - 05:15 PM.

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