Illinois Sucks Posted April 28, 2019 at 01:07 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 01:07 PM I use IC as kind of a news filter. I enjoy being able to view opinions and see discussion on news topics that interest me. Surprised there is no discussion about the craziness currently going on in the NRA. Ollie out. Coup against Wayne. NY subpoenas financial records. What is going on over there???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooch Posted April 28, 2019 at 02:19 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 02:19 PM I am curious also. I have received three (yes three) emails within the last two weeks asking me to renew my membership.The woman who took my call was very polite but also seemed a little (mendacious). I'm not sending them a dime until I get some more info as to what is up on that front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted April 28, 2019 at 02:22 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 02:22 PM ... Surprised there is no discussion about the craziness currently going on in the NRA. ... showtopic=71833 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted April 28, 2019 at 02:22 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 02:22 PM Judging only by the display halls in Indianapolis tightly packed with NRA members? I'd say things are looking up for the organization. The number of us geezers wandering the aisles was easily matched by youngsters, which is a positive for any national group. Oliver North has known his share of controversy over the years. Wayne is not notoriously 'shy' either. I just hope they keep fighting the good fight on all OUR behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveTA84 Posted April 28, 2019 at 02:25 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 02:25 PM Everything was a coordinated hit by Bloomberg, his groups, and the NY state government. I laid some of it out here https://ilwd4cr.home.blog/2019/04/22/the-new-yorker-published-a-hit-piece-on-the-nra-lets-break-it-down-whos-behind-it-shall-we/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted April 28, 2019 at 02:51 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 02:51 PM I heard a couple guys talking about it as we at lunch, but in general, no one seemed to notice nor care. Most of us was way to busy looking at all the goodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobPistol Posted April 28, 2019 at 03:04 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 03:04 PM We got my latest copies of their magazines. Their recent fundraising suggests that NY state is trying to put them out of business and Mario Cuomo is using the power of NY state to make sure no bank will do business with them. There are THOUSANDS of banks out there, and many of them are 2A friendly. But nooooo, they have to use LWW influenced NY banks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted April 28, 2019 at 03:57 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 03:57 PM Frankly, I 've been blissfully ignorant to all the recent turbulence that the NRA is experiencing. I'm FAR more concerned and engaged with what's going on here in Illinois - something I feel the NRA has not been for awhile. These days I feel my money is more wisely INVESTED to protect my gun rights when it is sent to IllinoisCarry and the ISRA, rather than the NRA. The shooting club I belong to requires me to be an NRA member to be a member of the club. This causes mixed feelings within me. While I strongly agree with the statement "Freedom isn't FREE!" - I'm ever so mildly irritated that it's the NRA that I must belong to. Why not the ISRA that devotes ALL it's time, energy and capital to Illinois politics and gun rights? Or, why not require that members belong to at least one gun rights organization? That would include being a supporting member of IllinoisCarry in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnbill Posted April 28, 2019 at 04:08 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 04:08 PM John Lott: NRA turmoil is not a threat to Second Amendment but THIS could do real harm https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/john-lott-second-amendment-nra-oliver-north Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito Posted April 28, 2019 at 04:33 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 04:33 PM Warts and all, the NRA is the most influential pro-2nd Amendment organization in the nation. Politicians know that they can mobilize much of the five million members to act. Gun owners that value their 2nd Amendment rights that do not financially support the NRA are free loaders, plain and simple. Nothing wrong with supporting the GOA (I do that as well) and the ISRA and any other pro-gun group you want, but that should be in ADDITION to supporting the NRA. Sometimes the NRA takes a position that I disagree with, but what else is new? Just as I support President Trump for many reasons, and despite the reality that there are some things that I see totally different than does the President. And the same with the NRA. I think that they should have taken a stronger position against so-called "red flag" laws, but at least they did say that without due process protections they will oppose such laws. Don't let the small stuff get in the way of the big picture. If you are a member, up your level to Life Member. If already a Life Member, consider becoming a Benefactor or other higher status. And as a minimum, if not a member, at least join at the annual rate and add your name to the 5 million already on board with the NRA and their efforts to preserve our nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted April 28, 2019 at 04:40 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 04:40 PM "at least join at the annual rate and add your name to the 5 million already on board with the NRA and their efforts to preserve our nation. " As I have posted here and elsewhere, if you're a gun owner and NOT an NRA member? SHAME on you! Fer cryin' out loud, use the link Hickok45 provides on all his YouTube video descriptions and the annual fee is like $30 and that INCLUDES 12 months of their gun magazine subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaKoncepts aka CGS Posted April 28, 2019 at 04:51 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 04:51 PM My take? Lapierre brought on AckMack and in doing so made a monaster. AckMack has alot of pull with board members and other NRA celebrities and personalities via their TV shows etc... AckMack got out of control and LaPierre tried to reign them in via law suit. Ackmack tried to use North to force out LaPierre to go. LaPierre showed North he has way more power than North, so North has to go. Simultaneously, and completely unrelated to the lapierre/ackmack power struggle, the old guard board members are under attack from NRA membership who really wants change and has been calling for it for year. People like Adam Kraut who the NRA old guard really really hates and has gone so far as to cut off his microphone at the annual meeting so he could not speak. Third, also unrelated but also not entirely unrelated, is the attack from the outside due to mismanagement of funds by LaPierre and Ackmack for things that maybe shouldn't have been expended as a Non Profit. I think the timing of this is possibly a result of maybe Ackmack trying to flex and releasing some documentation to Everytown who filed a complaint. In my opinion Lapierre, North, Ackmack, and much of the board of directors needs to GO. I also feel attendance at board meetings should be mandatory as well as transparency (to an extent) of those meetings. The bylaws are going to need to be changed to protect the membership and not the board. Also transparency in board member elections needs improvement. Power needs to be stripped from appointed positions such as LaPierre and Cox, that power needs to be given to duly elected board members. I'm not an NRA hater, I criticize because I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illinois Sucks Posted April 28, 2019 at 05:13 PM Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 05:13 PM ... Surprised there is no discussion about the craziness currently going on in the NRA. ...showtopic=71833 Thanks! The topic of that thread had it somewhat disguised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmcc Posted April 28, 2019 at 05:35 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 05:35 PM LaPierre and Cox have needed to go years ago, but they have changed the rules so even the board can not remove them.They are untouchable and I do not see them going anywhere.The board is basically window dressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illinois Sucks Posted April 28, 2019 at 05:48 PM Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 05:48 PM For me, something seems off when a "non profit" organization pays their president 1.4 million a year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito Posted April 28, 2019 at 06:03 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 06:03 PM For me, something seems off when a "non profit" organization pays their president 1.4 million a year.... There are many, many not for profit organizations that pay their CEO that much, or much more. I worked for a Catholic health care corporation that had, at that time, revenue in excess of $1 billion a year, and the CEO made (I believe) about $2 million a year, and that was several years ago before I retired. Many people do not understand what a not for profit corporation is. It is not a "non profit" entity, even if that is a short hand way of referring to the not for profits. Every business needs to make a profit, i.e., have revenues exceeding the costs of operation of there will never be funds for expansion, modernization, and investment for future services or products. Depreciation is an expense, but funding the cost of depreciation is not a profit, it is only enough to supposedly replace worn out or obsolete or just plain old buildings, equipment, etc. In not for profit healthcare, we estimated that we needed to make a positive income (i.e., profit) of about 3-5% of operating revenues, just to stay current in the industry. While that is a low profit margin, it is still a positive margin. Managing a large organization, with thousands or tens of thousands of employees, huge costs and revenues, takes a skilled leader. And to get a truly skilled leader capable of leading a large entity to ongoing success takes a big salary to attract and keep the right person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SILmama Posted April 28, 2019 at 07:16 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 07:16 PM John Lott: NRA turmoil is not a threat to Second Amendment but THIS could do real harm https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/john-lott-second-amendment-nra-oliver-north The last paragraph is the most important. "So in the long run, Oliver North stepping down as president of the NRA will be a footnote in history. But if Democratic politicians use this internal NRA battle as an excuse to further hobble their political enemies all Americans will become the losers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhouse5 Posted April 28, 2019 at 07:21 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 07:21 PM My take? Lapierre brought on AckMack and in doing so made a monaster. AckMack has alot of pull with board members and other NRA celebrities and personalities via their TV shows etc... AckMack got out of control and LaPierre tried to reign them in via law suit. Ackmack tried to use North to force out LaPierre to go. LaPierre showed North he has way more power than North, so North has to go. Simultaneously, and completely unrelated to the lapierre/ackmack power struggle, the old guard board members are under attack from NRA membership who really wants change and has been calling for it for year. People like Adam Kraut who the NRA old guard really really hates and has gone so far as to cut off his microphone at the annual meeting so he could not speak. Third, also unrelated but also not entirely unrelated, is the attack from the outside due to mismanagement of funds by LaPierre and Ackmack for things that maybe shouldn't have been expended as a Non Profit. I think the timing of this is possibly a result of maybe Ackmack trying to flex and releasing some documentation to Everytown who filed a complaint. In my opinion Lapierre, North, Ackmack, and much of the board of directors needs to GO. I also feel attendance at board meetings should be mandatory as well as transparency (to an extent) of those meetings. The bylaws are going to need to be changed to protect the membership and not the board. Also transparency in board member elections needs improvement. Power needs to be stripped from appointed positions such as LaPierre and Cox, that power needs to be given to duly elected board members. I'm not an NRA hater, I criticize because I care.This is a really good post.Adam Kraut should be on the board.The board needs to be smaller.Attendance should be mandatory.Marion Hammer needs to go.The whole place needs a house cleaning but it's not going to happen because the board has so little power compared to the executives. I am also not a NRA hater.I am a member.Also of GOA, 2nd Amendment Foundation, ISRA, and IC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHJ Posted April 28, 2019 at 11:42 PM Share Posted April 28, 2019 at 11:42 PM Thank you SILmama for the link. I was at the convention this weekend, left Saturday afternoon. I was due to renew my membership, and renewed to Life Time membership, before the exhibit doors opened @ 9:00. Received a Fox News text about Ollie later that morning, after having renewed. No mention, still, on the NRA site. Thanks for the link. I had a professional relationship with Col. North, back in the mid & late 1980’s, & thought he was a type of “standup type of guy”, but I thought he was a strange selection for NRA leadership, when he was selected. I know that the NRA will continue to “fight the good fight” in the near future, especially with the current political & social climate. Like President Trump, Vice President Pence, and Mr. Cox said on Friday, it is imperative for all of us to vote next November, to insure that our voices & Rights, are not infringed. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illinois Sucks Posted April 29, 2019 at 01:23 AM Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 at 01:23 AM For me, something seems off when a "non profit" organization pays their president 1.4 million a year.... There are many, many not for profit organizations that pay their CEO that much, or much more. I worked for a Catholic health care corporation that had, at that time, revenue in excess of $1 billion a year, and the CEO made (I believe) about $2 million a year, and that was several years ago before I retired. Many people do not understand what a not for profit corporation is. It is not a "non profit" entity, even if that is a short hand way of referring to the not for profits. Every business needs to make a profit, i.e., have revenues exceeding the costs of operation of there will never be funds for expansion, modernization, and investment for future services or products. Depreciation is an expense, but funding the cost of depreciation is not a profit, it is only enough to supposedly replace worn out or obsolete or just plain old buildings, equipment, etc. In not for profit healthcare, we estimated that we needed to make a positive income (i.e., profit) of about 3-5% of operating revenues, just to stay current in the industry. While that is a low profit margin, it is still a positive margin. Managing a large organization, with thousands or tens of thousands of employees, huge costs and revenues, takes a skilled leader. And to get a truly skilled leader capable of leading a large entity to ongoing success takes a big salary to attract and keep the right person. For me at least, "not for profit" implies that an organization is doing something for the good of people rather than for money. A 1.4 mil / year salary says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cope Posted April 29, 2019 at 02:43 AM Share Posted April 29, 2019 at 02:43 AM As mentioned above, running a large organization with 10s of thousands of employees requires a skilled leader and demands a high salary. Everyone would agree with that. That still doesnt answer a company with 10s of employees demanding so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmcc Posted April 29, 2019 at 04:16 AM Share Posted April 29, 2019 at 04:16 AM As mentioned above, running a large organization with 10s of thousands of employees requires a skilled leader and demands a high salary. Everyone would agree with that. That still doesnt answer a company with 10s of employees demanding so much. Uh... No... The NRA is not supposed be a large corporation. The NRA is supposed to be a not for profit gun lobby. They run the NRA like a large corporation with hands in all kinds of side businesses, and that is not what they should be doing. They need to down size the wasteful spending, get focused and operate as the not for profit they should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmagloo Posted April 29, 2019 at 01:43 PM Share Posted April 29, 2019 at 01:43 PM For me, something seems off when a "non profit" organization pays their president 1.4 million a year.... Look up the deferred compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted April 29, 2019 at 02:13 PM Share Posted April 29, 2019 at 02:13 PM Everything was a coordinated hit by Bloomberg, his groups, and the NY state government. I laid some of it out herehttps://ilwd4cr.home.blog/2019/04/22/the-new-yorker-published-a-hit-piece-on-the-nra-lets-break-it-down-whos-behind-it-shall-we/ The people that want Ackerman McQueen and Lapierre gone are not Bloomberg proxies, they're what Bloomberg's people would call "2nd ammendment extremists". Just because the MSM Dem mouthpiece is throwing salt at the NRA this lawsuit isn't necessarily a bad thing. If it forces the NRA to launch AckMac it will have accomplished what most NRA members have wanted for years. The lawsuit brought on by Bloomberg, NY and cronies is also a case of a pot calling the kettle black. Every single astroturf DNC nonprofit moves money from the organization to for profit consulting and advertising firms owned by nonprofit member's friends. The NRA is no different, the ad agency Ackerman McQueen has long been buddy buddy with Marion Hammer and Wayne Lapierre. Their proxys have taken over the NRA board and for years have funneled obscene amounts of members money into this ad agency with little return on investment, $47 million in 2017. They said it was especially high recently due to NRATV but at the same time they laid off a lot of the staff and hosts that made the content worth watching. Wayne and Hammer's salary is a drop in the bucket compared to what AckMac is making, but you can be assured they are being overpaid as part of the agreement. If this case goes to court it will expose the kind of for profit drains on non profits that the Dem astroturfs have used for years. The NRA will survive as a better organization without the drain, the Dem's astroturfs can't exist without their for profit consulting/advertising arms. If it sets a legal precedent there are plenty of Republican lawyers that will tear apart the DNC astroturfs including the gun grabbing ones cheerleading this lawsuit. This drama has been going on for years publicly to anyone that pays attention to Jeff Knox (picked up Neal Knox's torch after death) and his rally to take back the NRA board for the members. Neal Knox back in the day told Lapierre to get rid of AckMac but was overruled by the board of proxys. When the NRA has a firesale on lifetime memberships it would be worth grabbing just to vote the AckMac proxies out. When the NRA ceases to exist as a Republican astroturf they become the gun grabbers worst nightmare. When they no longer have an overpaid advertising firm curating a specific image for a narrow group of the 2nd ammendment public they will grow exponentially. They will be uncompromising and publicly punish any 2nd ammendment turncoat politician. They will be like the ACLU of gun rights, pissing off law enforcement, politicians, and their aging dying Fudd members by fighting for the 2nd ammendment for all people and all types of small arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveTA84 Posted April 30, 2019 at 11:58 AM Share Posted April 30, 2019 at 11:58 AM ^^^^^ Now THATS an organization that could really do some good. I posted this elsewhere: With all the turmoil going on in the NRA it should be used as a lesson moving forward: -dont compromise with the antis and piss off your base -start attacking the orgs, not just the politicians -Dump the useless special promo stuff and use the $$ for more court casesThey already have the membership numbers. Its time to re-birth the NRA and make them more damaging to the gun control lobby. And to all of you Fudds here that are cool with AR ban, red flag laws, etc, theres a new group for you: https://giffords.org/2019/01/colorado-gun-owners-coalition/ January 22, 2019 Today, former Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and Captain Mark Kelly, co-founders of Giffords, were in Denver to help launch a new group called Colorado Gun Owners for Safety. This new coalition of hunters, sport shooters, and collectors are coming together to advocate for commonsense gun violence prevention laws and promote safety. At a roundtable meeting announcing the launch, members of the new group shared their personal stories about getting involved and why they believe in the Second Amendment and stronger gun laws. It takes courage to speak up. When you do, others listen, said former Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. I was inspired by the Colorado gun owners I met today. Like me, they know that being a gun owner is our right as Americans but also comes with responsibilities. For too long, any sensible conversation about how we could bridge divides on addressing gun violence was drowned out by an angry few. But as this public safety threat has only gotten worse, as it seems like no community is safe from experiencing gunfire, Americans are demanding action. We look forward to working with this group to pass sensible laws that can make Colorado safer.Youd fit right in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted April 30, 2019 at 05:52 PM Share Posted April 30, 2019 at 05:52 PM It's time to get down in the mud and fight these anti-gunners the way they fight. We need to seize the language (it's a semi-automatic riffle, not a weapon of war) we need to tell them the way things are (our God given constitutional rights are more important than how warm and fuzzy they feel) and so on. Being nice will not get us anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito Posted April 30, 2019 at 06:03 PM Share Posted April 30, 2019 at 06:03 PM I have told some anti-gun relatives that say gun control is the answer to tell me exactly, specifically how they propose getting the guns out of the hands of criminals, gang bangers and potential terrorists, and that without a workable plan proven to do so, law abiding gun owners will never agree to any form of disarmament, no matter how many (or maybe because of) mass shootings or mass killings take place. The answer I get from these gun control supporters is ...silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modeler1945 Posted April 30, 2019 at 07:13 PM Share Posted April 30, 2019 at 07:13 PM When the NRA ceases to exist as a Republican astroturf they become the gun grabbers worst nightmare. When they no longer have an overpaid advertising firm curating a specific image for a narrow group of the 2nd ammendment public they will grow exponentially. They will be uncompromising and publicly punish any 2nd ammendment turncoat politician. They will be like the ACLU of gun rights, pissing off law enforcement, politicians, and their aging dying Fudd members by fighting for the 2nd ammendment for all people and all types of small arms. ^^^^^ Now THATS an organization that could really do some good. I posted this elsewhere: With all the turmoil going on in the NRA it should be used as a lesson moving forward: -dont compromise with the antis and piss off your base -start attacking the orgs, not just the politicians -Dump the useless special promo stuff and use the $$ for more court cases When the NRA starts doing exactly what you two just posted, then I will support them. Until then, I will put my money toward GOA and ISRA, who seem to me are fighting far harder with far less. Call me a free-loader all you want, I'm not going to support a group of Fudds and Butters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted April 30, 2019 at 08:10 PM Share Posted April 30, 2019 at 08:10 PM Until then, I will put my money toward GOA and ISRA, who seem to me are fighting far harder with far less. Call me a free-loader all you want, I'm not going to support a group of Fudds and Butters. Not to sound like an elitist but most of the people defending the NRA to the death have either donated once for a lifetime membership when it was heavily discounted or pay $40 a year. It's an identity or a lifestyle thing to them, not a nonprofit. When you attack the NRA you're attacking the only value they still provide, an identity, a sticker on their truck, a signature on a message board. How many times have you heard a Fudd say "I'm a card carrying member of the NRA!" like it's a status? That $40 a year pittance buys Wayne Lapierre 2 shoeshines, Colin Noir 2 hats, Uncle Ted 2 boxes of rubbers, or Dana Loesch 2 pairs of panties to twist, but it definitely doesn't buy you a 2A fight with that kind of overhead. It should be obvious you don't donate to a gun rights organization for a sticker, an occasional discount, and a card you wave around to trigger the yoots. Or worse, to fund a marketing company to promote an identity or lifestyle by hiring minor celebrities. So why does the NRA discount and constantly run promotions? All the other gun rights orgs let you donate as much or as little as you want to protect your rights. If you donate some might give you a sticker and newsletter but more importantly they're going to give you a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SycamoreRuger Posted May 2, 2019 at 01:40 AM Share Posted May 2, 2019 at 01:40 AM Yes their fundraising pleas are sounding more and more desperate. I got this one today. The sad part is, Wayne might be right about the NRA shutting down this time but the boy has cried wolf too many times. It reminds me of Illinois politiciansâ urgent annual pleas for some revenue scheme or another for roads and schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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