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Pistol confiscated by St Charles Police


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#31 Illinois Sucks

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:26 PM

Beleive it is a federal offense to transfer a firearm to an individual across state lines.

 

I was kind of thinking the same thing.  How does someone who is not legally a resident of Illinois transfer a gun to someone in Illinois without an FFL?


"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."     Alexander Hamilton


#32 Dog1

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:29 PM

Beleive it is a federal offense to transfer a firearm to an individual across state lines.

 
I was kind of thinking the same thing.  How does someone who is not legally a resident of Illinois transfer a gun to someone in Illinois without an FFL?


With very few exceptions you don't.

#33 Mr. Fife

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:01 AM

They probably ly want him to try so they can charge him again
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#34 Illinois Sucks

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:27 AM

They probably ly want him to try so they can charge him again


They never charged him with anything to begin with. Just took his pistol and ammo.

I asked about the out of state transfer and he said he's getting his license (legal Illinois resident) before the transfer. As far as I can tell, that makes everything kosher.

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."     Alexander Hamilton


#35 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 09:01 AM

He could sell it to a FFL. 


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#36 Illinois Sucks

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 07:40 PM

He already got his Illinois ID and is now an Illinois resident.  Transfer happens this Tuesday at the police station.


"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."     Alexander Hamilton


#37 Giant Teddybear

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 09:11 PM

The whole story sounds fishy and fabricated.

Colorado has a background check before you can LEGALLY purchase a firearm or obtain a concealed carry permit and uses a national database of information.

Why would he bring a gun back to Illinois knowing full well he was denied a FOID and could not legally own a gun in Illinois without a FOID.

Did he come back from Colorado straight to his mother's house and say "Hey mom, I have a gun, do you want to see it?"

Why would ANY Illinois police department agree to give a firearm to someone when the seller LEGALLY had no right to own it? It's State's evidence and is destroyed unless the owner show's a receipt of purchase, make, model, and serial number. Go ahead, ask me how I know all this

Did he trade some pot for the gun while in Colorado? Were you stoned when with him when he told you this?

#38 Gamma

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 04:01 AM

Why would ANY Illinois police department agree to give a firearm to someone when the seller LEGALLY had no right to own it? It's State's evidence and is destroyed unless the owner show's a receipt of purchase, make, model, and serial number. Go ahead, ask me how I know all this

Apparently you missed my post reminding folks of the unanimous SCOTUS decision which secured property rights even of convicted felons.

It's not evidence of anything as no crime has been committed. After he gets an IL DL, then he has 60 days to get a FOID or dispose of the firearm.

Allowing him to sell it gets them out of the sticky situation they put themselves into with an unlawful seizure of the firearm.
Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#39 Giant Teddybear

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 05:16 PM


My Illinois State Police friend says differently.

Edited by Giant Teddybear, 19 February 2018 - 05:28 PM.


#40 Giant Teddybear

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 05:25 PM

Depending on the circumstances of alleged firearm possession, the penalties range from a Petty Offense, Class A Misdemeanor, Class 4 Felony, Class 2 Felony, and Class 1 Felony. For example, a violation of 430 ILCS 65(a)(1) when the person’s Firearm Owner’s Identification Car is expired but the person is not otherwise disqualified from owning, purchasing, or possessing firearms, is a petty offense if the card was expired for 6 months or less from the date of expiration. On the other hand, a violation of 430 ILCS 65(a)(1) is a Class A Misdemeanor when the person does possess a currently valid Firearm Owner’s Identification Care, but is otherwise eligible under this Act. A second or subsequent violation is a Class 4 Felony.

Being in possession of the firearm knowing full well that his FOID card was denied previously is a Class 4 felony!

#41 Gamma

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 10:20 PM

Illinois State Police's attitude doesn't overrule SCOTUS, regardless of how empowered they feel in this communist state.

Even if you are a prohibited person, you have property rights and can make arrangements to legally sell or transfer as you see fit, without personally taking possession of the firearms.

Contrary behavior by LE would be a slam dunk case for any competent attorney as there is recent and unanimous SCOTUS precedent for any lower court to follow on the exact subject.
Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#42 cope

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 06:20 PM

I guess the question would be what exactly are the laws surrounding confiscated evidence if no charges are filed?

 

If someone gets pulled over and has a small amount of heroine (personal use only) in their glovebox. They are honest with the police and the officer cuts them a break and doesnt arrest them. He does however confiscate the heroine and dispose of it. Would your argument then be that he is legally bound according to SCOTUS to pay them the value of the heroine unless he pressed charges?

 

The gun was illegally possessed, no different than a gun with a scratched off serial number or any other type of illegal gun possession you can think of. No charges were filed. Do the property rights apply here any differently than the heroine? Both were clearly illegal.

 

Just curious..... as mentioned before in this specific case I think a Dr visit could have solved it all to begin with. Clearly the friend knows he should not be in possession of the gun until such time as he is deemed mentally fit.



#43 Illinois Sucks

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 09:10 PM

The pistol was successfully transferred to the new owner at the police station today. 


"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."     Alexander Hamilton


#44 lawman

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 09:56 PM

My Illinois State Police friend says differently.

 

Where did your Illinois Police friend go to law school?



#45 Gamma

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:52 PM

The gun was illegally possessed, no different than a gun with a scratched off serial number or any other type of illegal gun possession you can think of.

It was not illegally possessed, he was a CO resident, purchased legally in CO and legally transported to IL. He hadn't changed residence and exhausted the 60 day window yet.
Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#46 Giant Teddybear

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:16 PM

My Illinois State Police friend says differently.

 
Where did your Illinois Police friend go to law school?



He was a pilot for the State Police for 6 years, undercover drug task force for 12 years, administration for 8 years.

He's retired from the Illinois State Police and he works as a Private Investigator and teaches Administration of Justice courses to college students seeking an Associate's degree.

Edited by Giant Teddybear, 21 February 2018 - 06:16 PM.


#47 papa

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 09:36 PM

 



He was a pilot for the State Police for 6 years, undercover drug task force for 12 years, administration for 8 years.

He's retired from the Illinois State Police and he works as a Private Investigator and teaches Administration of Justice courses to college students seeking an Associate's degree.

 

Police officers are well known to give wrong advice about gun law.  A couple years before Our FCCL was passed , I contacted my local sheriffs office to ask about the law concerning transport of a firearm.  I already knew the law concerning this but wanted to see if the deputies knew it.  I asked the deputy that called me back  if it were legal to have a loaded magazine in the case with an unloaded pistol.  He flatly told me that no it wasn't legal and also that the cased firearm couldn't be within my reach.

 

I then informed him that he should read what the ISP had put out concerning cased transport and he got mad because I questioned his authority and knowledge of the law.  That isn't the first time I have been given wrong information by a LEO.  I am sure there are others on this site that can also give examples of this.



#48 cope

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:50 PM

 

The gun was illegally possessed, no different than a gun with a scratched off serial number or any other type of illegal gun possession you can think of.

It was not illegally possessed, he was a CO resident, purchased legally in CO and legally transported to IL. He hadn't changed residence and exhausted the 60 day window yet.

 

IANAL and you might get the right judge to agree to that, had he not already been told by IL that he could not possess a firearm in IL....... you can get a revoked DL in IL and easily get another state license, it doesnt make you legal to drive here either....... he knowingly violated IL law and property and othewise should be treated as such.... I dont think anyone on this forum agrees with the laws but they are there and most agree they have to be abided by........ of course his mental "issue" may be a defense



#49 Whitedog

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 09:47 AM

I have a friend who's FOID had been, unknowingly, revoked. When he went to the Ex's to get his possessions, she had the local PD there waiting. When it came to him getting his guns, they asked for his FOID. They checked it and told him there was an issue, it had been revoked. We went to the local PD the next day and they had no issue releasing the weapons to me. These are still in my possession today.

Also I'm glad the OP's friend got the problem resolved. Sometimes it just take a conversation with the right people and the right information.



#50 gangrel

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 03:29 PM

My Illinois State Police friend says differently. Where did your Illinois Police friend go to law school?He was a pilot for the State Police for 6 years, undercover drug task force for 12 years, administration for 8 years.He's retired from the Illinois State Police and he works as a Private Investigator and teaches Administration of Justice courses to college students seeking an Associate's degree.
None of which answers the question as to where he went to law school. Being a pilot for the state police requires two things. Being a cop and being a pilot. Neither of which is strongly correlated with offering sound legal advice. Nor is being a private investigator. And teaching Administration of Justice to Associates Degree students is hardly passing the bar exam. I don't think you have a true appreciation for how much flawed, incorrect, and downright bad legal advice is babbled day in and day out by law enforcement officers. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

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#51 hgmeyer

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 04:46 PM

My Illinois State Police friend says differently. Where did your Illinois Police friend go to law school?He was a pilot for the State Police for 6 years, undercover drug task force for 12 years, administration for 8 years.He's retired from the Illinois State Police and he works as a Private Investigator and teaches Administration of Justice courses to college students seeking an Associate's degree.


None of which answers the question as to where he went to law school. Being a pilot for the state police requires two things. Being a cop and being a pilot. Neither of which is strongly correlated with offering sound legal advice. Nor is being a private investigator. And teaching Administration of Justice to Associates Degree students is hardly passing the bar exam.

I don't think you have a true appreciation for how much flawed, incorrect, and downright bad legal advice is babbled day in and day out by law enforcement officers.

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Let's see, the idiocy spewed from some appellate courts, the crap we see from anti 2A lawyers, etc. Don't need a law degree to guarantee stupid legal positions. There is no integrity easily found in the law any more. Outcome based reasons create horrible decisions and twist
Ed legal interpretations. LEOs aren't the only purveyors of bad legal advice

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#52 gangrel

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 09:31 PM

My Illinois State Police friend says differently. Where did your Illinois Police friend go to law school?He was a pilot for the State Police for 6 years, undercover drug task force for 12 years, administration for 8 years.He's retired from the Illinois State Police and he works as a Private Investigator and teaches Administration of Justice courses to college students seeking an Associate's degree. None of which answers the question as to where he went to law school. Being a pilot for the state police requires two things. Being a cop and being a pilot. Neither of which is strongly correlated with offering sound legal advice. Nor is being a private investigator. And teaching Administration of Justice to Associates Degree students is hardly passing the bar exam. I don't think you have a true appreciation for how much flawed, incorrect, and downright bad legal advice is babbled day in and day out by law enforcement officers. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk D Let's see, the idiocy spewed from some appellate courts, the crap we see from anti 2A lawyers, etc. Don't need a law degree to guarantee stupid legal positions. There is no integrity easily found in the law any more. Outcome based reasons create horrible decisions and twist Ed legal interpretations. LEOs aren't the only purveyors of bad legal advice
No, they aren't. They are just particularly prolific purveyors of bad legal advice. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

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#53 borgranta

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 01:20 AM

The gun was illegally possessed, no different than a gun with a scratched off serial number or any other type of illegal gun possession you can think of.

It was not illegally possessed, he was a CO resident, purchased legally in CO and legally transported to IL. He hadn't changed residence and exhausted the 60 day window yet.
IANAL and you might get the right judge to agree to that, had he not already been told by IL that he could not possess a firearm in IL....... you can get a revoked DL in IL and easily get another state license, it doesnt make you legal to drive here either....... he knowingly violated IL law and property and othewise should be treated as such.... I dont think anyone on this forum agrees with the laws but they are there and most agree they have to be abided by........ of course his mental "issue" may be a defense
He was legally exempt from needing a FOID as a non-resident especially since he had a carry license. If a court were to declare illegal possession it would be essentially like he was a second class or third class citizen since outside the state of ILLINOIS he has the right to own and carry but inside he is breaking the law and all over a referral which should not be disqualifying.
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#54 BigJim

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 08:56 AM

I have a friend who's FOID had been, unknowingly, revoked. When he went to the Ex's to get his possessions, she had the local PD there waiting. When it came to him getting his guns, they asked for his FOID. They checked it and told him there was an issue, it had been revoked. We went to the local PD the next day and they had no issue releasing the weapons to me. These are still in my possession today.

Also I'm glad the OP's friend got the problem resolved. Sometimes it just take a conversation with the right people and the right information.

Were they released or transferred to you?


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#55 Whitedog

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:57 PM

 

I have a friend who's FOID had been, unknowingly, revoked. When he went to the Ex's to get his possessions, she had the local PD there waiting. When it came to him getting his guns, they asked for his FOID. They checked it and told him there was an issue, it had been revoked. We went to the local PD the next day and they had no issue releasing the weapons to me. These are still in my possession today.

Also I'm glad the OP's friend got the problem resolved. Sometimes it just take a conversation with the right people and the right information.

Were they released or transferred to you?

 

Released to me. I did not have to fill out anything, just showed them my FOID and they went back to the evidence room, brought them out and handed them over to me.



#56 Giant Teddybear

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 07:17 PM



I bet you spent all day making this up.

#57 Jatwood29

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 03:01 PM

I think the main problem is he had a gun on private oropeety without permission.
What does the Illinois statute and case law declare as the penalty?

Removing the FOID part out of it. To answer your question, it depends on a few things.

1. was it being carried or was it unloaded and in a case at the time?

2. was he living there aka his legal dwelling.

 

1st If it was Unloaded in a case as described in the UUW law, that means that the gun is in transportation mode and therefore you do not need the permission of the property owner to have it. You only need their permission if you

a. are an invitee (if you live there you are not an invitee in the eyes of the law)

b. are carrying it loaded.

 

2nd, if he had established residency in the house, he has tenant right just as if he was renting from a landlord. I pasted the part in the law that says you are guilty

of UUW with exceptions. One of those exceptions are CARRYING your gun in your legal dwelling.

 

So, bottomline. If you are of age, are living at home with mom, and you own a hand gun. Legally you are not breaking any law.

 

Again, my answer was removing the FOID aspect of it. If he has no FOID and has residency in Illinois, that's a no no.

 

(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed 

on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business,

or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, r

evolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm,



#58 Cerus

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 03:14 PM

I bet you spent all day making this up.


Why the attacks? It’s a well known fact that police officers are ignorant of the law more often than not. Even actual lawyers get it wrong yet you think cops know it all. The fact that you choose to believe everything the police tell you is quite sad. I wouldn’t trust anything out of the mouth of someone who can legally lie to you.

I suppose all the cops who still tell citizens they can’t record them are right too eh?

#59 Mick G

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 03:54 PM

 

I bet you spent all day making this up.


Why the attacks? It’s a well known fact that police officers are ignorant of the law more often than not. Even actual lawyers get it wrong yet you think cops know it all. The fact that you choose to believe everything the police tell you is quite sad. I wouldn’t trust anything out of the mouth of someone who can legally lie to you.

I suppose all the cops who still tell citizens they can’t record them are right too eh?

 

 

This is a great legal point. The Police are trained to lie to you and yet if you lie to them it's a crime.

Thanks 5th amendment, I'll exercise my RIGHT to be quiet.



#60 Euler

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 05:20 PM

... The Police are trained to lie to you ...


Reid technique




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