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Retailers requiring FOID from FCCL holders


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As most IC members know, IL law now allows FCCL holders to use their FCCL cards for all purposes which formerly required FOID cards. FCCL holders are still required to have valid FOIDs but can use the FCCL for purchases of firearms and ammunition, etc. While nothing in the law requires a retailer to accept the FCCL for purchases, retailers who do not do so are unnecessarily inconveniencing their customers.

 

The current laws may be found at

 

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1657&ChapterID=39

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?ActID=1876&ChapterID=53&SeqStart=68200000&SeqEnd=71400000

 

(links provided by kwc).

 

Several threads have mentioned that not all retailers are up to speed with these changes, and there are now several threads discussing this topic, e.g.

 

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=58700

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59043

 

This thread is an effort at consolidating some of this information into one place and keeping it updated for the convenience of IC readers. If you have a new report please send me a PM or post to this thread. If you find that a retailer has finally gotten clued in please do likewise. I'll keep the list in this post updated. I hope this thread can die a lonely death soon, but until then, if it helps avoid a wasted trip, great.

 

With that as background, here's what I've seen posted so far. Please PM or post corrections.

 

Gander Mountain (location not specified)

Reported on 10/19/2015 by Retiredguns, post #5 of http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=58700

 

Maxon Shooter's Supply, Des Plaines - requires FOID for range use

Reported on 10/19/2015 by soylentgreen, post #7 of http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=58700

 

Pekin Gun & Sporting Goods, Pekin

Store staffer states (phone call 10/21/2015) that they will continue to require FOIDs until told otherwise by ISP and ATF.

Reported on 10/21/2015 by Joebillybob, this thread

 

Wal-Mart (location not specified)

Reported on 10/19/2015 by Retiredguns, post #5 of http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=58700

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Yes, you may shop anywhere you wish to spend your hard earned US American dollars.

And the business owner has the right to follow the laws.

It states "Either" card may be used, it doesn't state that one is exclusive of the other!

So while the shop owners are choosing one over the other, our, the firearm community attempting to force them to lean one way instead of the other is very much like the anti's stateing their position and us stateing ours!

If it doesn't "conform" to your exact ideals, it's incorrect.

I amazed at those who after how many years the FOID has been around, now refusing to do business with someone actually abiding by the rules as they are written........

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Police officers barley understand the law, you expect in many cases, store clerks to know it? This will take years if not a decade until we stop hearing about it totally. Someone is always behind the times. Don't expect printing the statute to help you either, do what I do and carry both for the time being.

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I carry both. I use the FOID card when asked for an ID. It is really no one's business but mine that I have a concealed carry license.

^^ This...
Yep as long as we are required to have the FOID I see no reason not to show it instead of the CCL.

The REASON is that some people don't want to have both their FOID and CCL in their wallet in case they lose their wallet or if it is stolen. If the wallet is lost and you have your FOID at home, you can still possess a weapon and ammo, FOID carry and buy more of each while you wait for a replacement CCL. If both are in your wallet, you can't even have a single bullet in your possesiion until you get a FOID replacement.

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The REASON is that some people don't want to have both their FOID and CCL in their wallet in case they lose their wallet or if it is stolen. If the wallet is lost and you have your FOID at home, you can still possess a weapon and ammo, FOID carry and buy more of each while you wait for a replacement CCL. If both are in your wallet, you can't even have a single bullet in your possesiion until you get a FOID replacement.

 

Maybe someone has had to get a replacement FOID to provide their experience, but I doubt that anyone who has ordered a replacement FOID has had to turn over their guns and ammo to someone else until the new card arrives. The police are not going to seek a search warrant for the home of someone applying for a replacement FOID. There are records to show one has been issued a FOID and a replacement has been ordered. If one uses a firearm to defend a home, those records are easily accessed by the police. Even if that defense is 100% justified, the defender will be subjected to extensive, and probably repeated, interrogation whether or not they can present a FOID.

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The REASON is that some people don't want to have both their FOID and CCL in their wallet in case they lose their wallet or if it is stolen. If the wallet is lost and you have your FOID at home, you can still possess a weapon and ammo, FOID carry and buy more of each while you wait for a replacement CCL. If both are in your wallet, you can't even have a single bullet in your possesiion until you get a FOID replacement.

 

Maybe someone has had to get a replacement FOID to provide their experience, but I doubt that anyone who has ordered a replacement FOID has had to turn over their guns and ammo to someone else until the new card arrives. The police are not going to seek a search warrant for the home of someone applying for a replacement FOID. There are records to show one has been issued a FOID and a replacement has been ordered. If one uses a firearm to defend a home, those records are easily accessed by the police. Even if that defense is 100% justified, the defender will be subjected to extensive, and probably repeated, interrogation whether or not they can present a FOID.

I was talking about possessing a weapon outside of your home with your FOID card. Also to buy more ammo. If you lose both your FOID and CCL, everything must stay home and you can't buy any additional guns or ammo.

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The REASON is that some people don't want to have both their FOID and CCL in their wallet in case they lose their wallet or if it is stolen. If the wallet is lost and you have your FOID at home, you can still possess a weapon and ammo, FOID carry and buy more of each while you wait for a replacement CCL. If both are in your wallet, you can't even have a single bullet in your possesiion until you get a FOID replacement.

Maybe someone has had to get a replacement FOID to provide their experience, but I doubt that anyone who has ordered a replacement FOID has had to turn over their guns and ammo to someone else until the new card arrives. The police are not going to seek a search warrant for the home of someone applying for a replacement FOID. There are records to show one has been issued a FOID and a replacement has been ordered. If one uses a firearm to defend a home, those records are easily accessed by the police. Even if that defense is 100% justified, the defender will be subjected to extensive, and probably repeated, interrogation whether or not they can present a FOID.

I was talking about possessing a weapon outside of your home with your FOID card. Also to buy more ammo. If you lose both your FOID and CCL, everything must stay home and you can't buy any additional guns or ammo.

 

Not to mention the additional time for replacement.

 

From anecdotal reports, replacement FOIDs are taking over 30 days. And ISP appears to not be willing to send you a replacment CCL until you have the replacement FOID despite the change in the law. Replacement CCLs by contrast seem to be taking less than a week. So if you lose your wallet, do you want to be without carry for less than a week, or for 5~6 weeks?

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From anecdotal reports, replacement FOIDs are taking over 30 days. And ISP appears to not be willing to send you a replacment CCL until you have the replacement FOID despite the change in the law. Replacement CCLs by contrast seem to be taking less than a week. So if you lose your wallet, do you want to be without carry for less than a week, or for 5~6 weeks?

 

from the perspective of someone who misplaced my CCL, the replacement time for my CCL was almost 2 months... almost as long as the reports of time elapsed for address changes.

 

Whatever you do, DONT MISPLACE YOUR CCL... THE ILLINOIS HOPLOPHOBES LOVE TO DENY YOUR RIGHTS!!!

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  • 6 months later...

I know this is an old thread, but I've been experimenting with presenting my CCW instead of my FOID card largely due to reasons already mentioned in that I don't like having all my eggs in one basket that I could (god forbid) potentially misplace or lose. Additionally, I just like carrying around less stuff.

 

Locally I typically only buy ammo from Wal-Mart, and I've yet to be to a Wal-Mart that took my CCW and instead insisted on seeing my FOID card. I'm curious if anyone has had the opposite experience. I don't think they're trained at all, when I tried to argue with one of them about it they just told me, "Look the cash register is asking for your FOID card."

 

Welp.

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But when a business asks for FOID and all one has is a CCL, it's difficult to lay blame on one party or the other.

 

I disagree.

 

The only reason businesses ask for a FOID card in the first place is because the FOID Act placed that requirement on them.

 

The FOID Act was updated almost a year ago (July 2015) to allow a CCL to be used to purchase ammo/firearms. There's no reason for a store to continue to enforce a policy that only exists because of a state law, and the policy they're enforcing is based on an outdated version of the law.

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The amended act only states that if you possess a valid CCL and have only your CCL when purchasing ammo/firearms, you are exempt from showing your FOID.

 

No. You are allowed to show either. It has nothing to do with whether you have both cards on you or not.

 

 

Sec. 3. (a) Except as provided in Section 3a, no person may knowingly transfer, or cause to be transferred, any firearm, firearm ammunition, stun gun, or taser to any person within this State unless the transferee with whom he deals displays either: (1) a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card which has previously been issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act; or (2) a currently valid license to carry a concealed firearm which has previously been issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the Firearm Concealed Carry Act.

 

The point, though, is that the only reason they ask for a FOID in the first place was because the state law said a valid FOID was required for transfers. The law now says that a valid FOID or CCL is required, yet many stores still require the FOID.

 

 

Before the Candy Act became law:

 

Kid: Mom, can I have some candy?

Mom: Sure, son, here ya go!

 

After the Candy Act became law:

 

Kid: Mom, can I have some candy?

Mom: Your dad says you have to show me that you did your homework before I can give you candy.

Kid: *shows homework*

Mom: Great, here ya go!

 

After the Candy Act was amended:

 

Kid: Mom, can I have some candy?

Mom: Your dad says you have to show me that you did your homework before I can give you candy.

Kid: No, he changed that rule last year... I can either show completed homework or do a household chore, and I just washed the dishes. See?

Mom: Sorry, I'm sticking with your father's old policy. I'm gonna need to see some completed homework.

Kid: But I don't have any homework this weekend...

Mom: Sorry... no homework, no candy.

 

 

Same basic concept... Mom's wrong.

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Honestly I rather show them my FOID card and not my CCL. I hold to a strict "Concealed means concealed" notion so showing someone my CCL lets them know I have a firearm concealed somewhere on my person therefor defeating my purpose.

 

Having a CCL in no way confirms that one is carrying, any more than a FOID indicates someone actually owns guns, someone with a Driver's License owns a car, etc.

 

Is it an indicator? Sure. But it's not definitive.

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Store clerks just follow the rules set by their management. If time allows, I'll go to Maxons this weekend with my FCCL and a copy of the law.

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The law can state their requirements. As long as the store is within state requirements, Maxon can ask for additional requirements if they so choose.

I don't dispute that. Doing so would be stupid, but I fully support property owner rights, even to make mistakes.

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I may leave my FOID at home from now on. I'd hate to lose both.

 

I see both sides of this.

 

Yes the store should have informed its employees. But who's job is it to inform the store? Places like gander mtn that also have classes should IMO accept whichever you choose to show them. Places like this I'd hope would know the laws that people are teaching inside their business.

However, the Walmart or farm and fleet or dicks I can see not doing/knowing this.

The other side is people who work there were probably drilled into their heads to see and use the FOID card. I can't fault them for that. Also how much do they really care if you're offended. They make like $9/hr.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I know this is an old thread, but I've been experimenting with presenting my CCW instead of my FOID card largely due to reasons already mentioned in that I don't like having all my eggs in one basket that I could (god forbid) potentially misplace or lose. Additionally, I just like carrying around less stuff.

 

Locally I typically only buy ammo from Wal-Mart, and I've yet to be to a Wal-Mart that took my CCW and instead insisted on seeing my FOID card. I'm curious if anyone has had the opposite experience. I don't think they're trained at all, when I tried to argue with one of them about it they just told me, "Look the cash register is asking for your FOID card."

 

Welp.

Ah, the old raiseing of the dead thread..........

IF, and this may be the problem, if you are actually presenting your CCW " Carry Conceal Weapon" instead of your CCL " Carry Conceal License" or FOID, that may be your issue!

If pulling your CCW and either pointing it at them or simply handing it to them, would more than likely result in a denial of service OR a huge free batch of ammo from the kid behind the counter!

 

And on a side note, while I'm here, this pony hasn't been beaten to death on these forums, but it does have no head anymore........

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  • 9 months later...

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