Container Carry Legal confirmation, VIA Testimony by AG Attorney at Moore v Madigan Hearing June 8th

[daplumber]

I believe the AG Attorney at the Moore v Madigan Hearing inadvertently confirmed that "Container Carry" is Legal in Illinois. It happened when Judge Williams is grilling him. Does anyone else hear what I am hearing? This is not Concealed Carry as we are fighting for, but you do not NEED any permit either! This could be leverage towards a Concealed Carry Law. The Anti's would hate it if people did not even have to be Licensed! No Finger Print's, No Background Checks, No Fee paid to the State....

[junglebob]

And now the Wildlife Code has changed so a carrying box, shipping box, or other container is a case.

[Uncle Harley]

I believe the AG Attorney at the Moore v Madigan Hearing inadvertently confirmed that "Container Carry" is Legal in Illinois. It happened when Judge Williams is grilling him. Does anyone else hear what I am hearing? This is not Concealed Carry as we are fighting for, but you do not NEED any permit either! This could be leverage towards a Concealed Carry Law. The Anti's would hate it if people did not even have to be Licensed! No Finger Print's, No Background Checks, No Fee paid to the State....

 

Been doing this for several yrs keep in mind this is not legal everywhere within the state. Look up people.vs bruner and study it out. Also keep in mind many city ordinances may prohibit it as well

[daplumber]

Time to Challenge what is Uncostitutional and demand that our State Law over rules Home Rule Communitie's Non Sense. In my opinion, If there were thousands of people, all over the State who were Container Carrying and made the Media aware of it, the Powers that be, would Pass Concealed Carry in a Week. We have been told that it is Legal, we have an Illinois Supreme Court Ruling as a Precident and the AG Attorney is on record as saying it is allowed in Illinois. The writting is on the Wall, do you have the courage to do what is currently legal in Illinois and Challenge the Oppressors, who say that the Constitution does not apply HERE? Someday the Ruling from Moore v Madigan will come in and AG Lisa Madigan will Appeal it. Then we start all over, with the waiting game. I do not Carry where it is "Illegal", but I do Carry everyday and I use it as a way to promote Concealed Carry in Illinois. You would be surprised how many people are in support of CCW in the Chicago Suburban area, but feel like it is Taboo. I only get in trouble about it by CCW Supporters that feel I am disrupting their cause. To each their own.

[TomKoz]

Why is a "pocket" not a container?

[daplumber]

Why is a "pocket" not a container?

Read Illinois Gun Laws Pamphlet, it breaks it down for you or See People v Bruner for a really good understanding of the matter!

[kurt555gs]

I have the same, "I only get in trouble about it by CCW Supporters that feel I am disrupting their cause." issue. And I truly don't know why? I thought we are on the same team for RTC.

 

Unfortunately. We're not.

[Lou]

Feel free to join the team at any time.

[kurt555gs]

Feel free to join the team at any time.

 

And,I would graciously extend the same invitation to you as well Lou.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[C0untZer0]

Why is a "pocket" not a container?

 

Pour some soup in your pocket and you'll find out

[TyGuy]

I bat for both teams.

 

Wiat, that didn't come out right,

[daplumber]

Feel free to join the team at any time.

Which one, the one that actually play's or the one that watch's and complain's! Ha Ha, Sorry, that was too easy!

[daplumber]

I bat for both teams.

 

Wiat, that didn't come out right,

Now that was FUNNY!

[C0untZer0]

I listened to the oral arguments again and Posner took Karl Triebel to the woodshed. Karl couldn't argue, couldn't make a case, couldn't do anything except blurt out his prepared statements. When he was challenged by Posner he just blurted out his prepared material again...

[daplumber]

I listened to the oral arguments again and Posner took Karl Triebel to the woodshed. Karl couldn't argue, couldn't make a case, couldn't do anything except blurt out his prepared statements. When he was challenged by Posner he just blurted out his prepared material again...

They never did have a Case, it's a shame that it took 51 years to get to this point. Where has the NRA been for 50 Year's?

[papa]

I listened to the oral arguments again and Posner took Karl Triebel to the woodshed. Karl couldn't argue, couldn't make a case, couldn't do anything except blurt out his prepared statements. When he was challenged by Posner he just blurted out his prepared material again...

They never did have a Case, it's a shame that it took 51 years to get to this point. Where has the NRA been for 50 Year's?

 

People should try to remember that we gun owners didn't have the social networking 10 years ago that we enjoy today. We weren't set up to band together to stand against a common enemy. At the same time there were , and still are today , those gun owners that don't care , or even believe in , carrying a gun in public. There are hunters who think you only need a good 12 Ga. , a .22 rifle , and maybe a lever action thurty - thurty. They wouldn't think of owning a handgun and certainly not an AR style rifle.

 

As to the where the NRA has been , are we the only state that has to fight bad gun laws? Are we the only state the NRA should worry about? Even in the states that have , what we consider , great gun laws the people still have to fight off bad laws. I would like to see Todd have a dozen associates working in this state alone but I doubt that will ever happen.

 

One more thing to remember..... WE the people are the NRA!

 

PS: I would be willing to bet that if not for the NRA , we wouldn't have any 2A rights left in this state . jmho !

[05FLHT]

They never did have a Case, it's a shame that it took 51 years to get to this point. Where has the NRA been for 50 Year's?

 

Waiting for Heller & McDonald.

[daplumber]

I listened to the oral arguments again and Posner took Karl Triebel to the woodshed. Karl couldn't argue, couldn't make a case, couldn't do anything except blurt out his prepared statements. When he was challenged by Posner he just blurted out his prepared material again...

They never did have a Case, it's a shame that it took 51 years to get to this point. Where has the NRA been for 50 Year's?

 

People should try to remember that we gun owners didn't have the social networking 10 years ago that we enjoy today. We weren't set up to band together to stand against a common enemy. At the same time there were , and still are today , those gun owners that don't care , or even believe in , carrying a gun in public. There are hunters who think you only need a good 12 Ga. , a .22 rifle , and maybe a lever action thurty - thurty. They wouldn't think of owning a handgun and certainly not an AR style rifle.

 

As to the where the NRA has been , are we the only state that has to fight bad gun laws? Are we the only state the NRA should worry about? Even in the states that have , what we consider , great gun laws the people still have to fight off bad laws. I would like to see Todd have a dozen associates working in this state alone but I doubt that will ever happen. Todd should have two dozen associates working in Illinois, we have sure as heck paid enough for them!

 

One more thing to remember..... WE the people are the NRA!

 

PS: I would be willing to bet that if not for the NRA , we wouldn't have any 2A rights left in this state . jmho !

The Truth is the NRA sold us out, it was the Second Amendment Foundation that has been winning the Lawsuits for us, not the NRA. They have been taking our money, and sitting on their hand's. They won't even give credit, where credit is due, they call them the "other" Gun Right's Group. I was in Des Plaines for the Gun Range Meeting. The NRA guy made an a** of himself and an embarrassment to gun owners. The Village Board was already to Vote in favor of the Gun Range and this guy gets up and bellows out his non sense. Everytime I spoke to the NRA, I got the same B.S., "it's not the Right Time". Let's face it, they make a lot of money off of us, what have they done compared to 2 A Foundation? The NRA alway's want's to Trumpet the Victorie's, even if they had nothing to do with them happening. 51 Year's is too long to sit on your hand's, I don't buy into the excuse's.

[C0untZer0]

Do you mean Charles Cooper or Karl Triebel? I thik Cooper does a bad job with his opening - it seems like he's trying to say that the right to carry outside the home was not enshrined in the 2nd Amendment at it's writing. If I just look at his words he seems to say just the opposite. Judge Williams mentions Blackstone only to make a point that the issue has been dealt with by the court before, so it would seem that the the court previously didn't beleive that the RTKBA was confined to the home.

 

Cooper's sentences are nightmares - he obviously never watched Schoolhouse Rock, but I don't see the AG confirming container carry there.

 

When Williams questions Triebel, she notes that Heller discussed the right to possess and carry weapons in cases of confrontation. Triebel responds that Illinois law does not stop at the four corners of the home - but he clarifies that by saying it applies to one's private land, and one's business. IMO it's double talk from Triebel. We know that for people who don't own a business and they also live in an apartment, condo or townhome - that's exactly what Illinois law does. It completely restricts someone to possesion within their home. Posner points that out.

 

Williams brings up the example of a person who is being stalked and has an order of protection from the court - the person has the ability to have a gun in her home and in her yard but when she goes to work, as Judge Williams puts it "she has no gun." Triebel replies that "she would have to unload that firearm while it's in transportation to her workplace." I don't think that statement should or could be interpreted as a complete representation of Illinois UUW. For one thing he isn't allowed to make a complete statement of what the woman would have to do - he just points out that one of the things that she would have to do is unload it. And he is interupted by Williams. And actually Williams says "This isn't someone who just likes having their gun with them cuz they love guns, this is somebody who is being stalked, under Illinois law there is no provision for that." Triebel replies "correct your honor."

 

I don't see the asst AG confirming container carry here either.

 

Gura did better than either of the Illinois attorneys - Triebel started to make a case that legislators can't be 100% certain of the efficacy of the laws they are considering and Posner interupted him and said "Don't be silly" and then when he mentioned Wyoming in relation to a 1787 question and Posner again admonishes him "Not Wyoming, it wasn't part of the United States", and then he mentions Tombstone.... OMG Triebel was a disaster.

 

 

.

[05FLHT]

I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how the NRA 'sat on their hands'? Heller was decided in 2008 and McDonald in 2011. Shepard & Moore were both filed at just about the same time in 2012.

 

As a side note, the NRA/ISRA did a fantastic job as Mary Shepard is the much more sympathetic plaintiff.

 

I am also aware of what the NRA attempted to do to Heller as the case was working it's way up and can understand the frustration Gura must have felt with time divided at orals. It did, however, work out well in the end. That said, the NRA is very good at working elections and lobbying for legislation, which compliments the SAF's ability to litigate quite well. Now, everybody play nice and let's get the job done.

[papa]

daplumber , If you are going to add a comment in my post , I would thank you to bold it or in some other way show that it wasn't I who made the statement. I refer to the last sentence of the second paragraph of my post that you quoted .

[daplumber]

daplumber , If you are going to add a comment in my post , I would thank you to bold it or in some other way show that it wasn't I who made the statement. I refer to the last sentence of the second paragraph of my post that you quoted .

Papa, I do not even know how you were included, Sorry.

[daplumber]

I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how the NRA 'sat on their hands'? Heller was decided in 2008 and McDonald in 2011. Shepard & Moore were both filed at just about the same time in 2012.

 

As a side note, the NRA/ISRA did a fantastic job as Mary Shepard is the much more sympathetic plaintiff.

 

I am also aware of what the NRA attempted to do to Heller as the case was working it's way up and can understand the frustration Gura must have felt with time divided at orals. It did, however, work out well in the end. That said, the NRA is very good at working elections and lobbying for legislation, which compliments the SAF's ability to litigate quite well. Now, everybody play nice and let's get the job done.

The Case is 50 years late and the NRA is only now involved because the 2A Foundation is kicking a** all over the Nation and making them look like the ineffective fools that they have been. Too much talk, not enough action. Hopefully they are taking notes and learning how to get the job done.

[daplumber]

Do you mean Charles Cooper or Karl Triebel? I thik Cooper does a bad job with his opening - it seems like he's trying to say that the right to carry outside the home was not enshrined in the 2nd Amendment at it's writing. If I just look at his words he seems to say just the opposite. Judge Williams mentions Blackstone only to make a point that the issue has been dealt with by the court before, so it would seem that the the court previously didn't beleive that the RTKBA was confined to the home.

 

Cooper's sentences are nightmares - he obviously never watched Schoolhouse Rock, but I don't see the AG confirming container carry there.

 

When Williams questions Triebel, she notes that Heller discussed the right to possess and carry weapons in cases of confrontation. Triebel responds that Illinois law does not stop at the four corners of the home - but he clarifies that by saying it applies to one's private land, and one's business. IMO it's double talk from Triebel. We know that for people who don't own a business and they also live in an apartment, condo or townhome - that's exactly what Illinois law does. It completely restricts someone to possesion within their home. Posner points that out.

 

Williams brings up the example of a person who is being stalked and has an order of protection from the court - the person has the ability to have a gun in her home and in her yard but when she goes to work, as Judge Williams puts it "she has no gun." Triebel replies that "she would have to unload that firearm while it's in transportation to her workplace." I don't think that statement should or could be interpreted as a complete representation of Illinois UUW. For one thing he isn't allowed to make a complete statement of what the woman would have to do - he just points out that one of the things that she would have to do is unload it. And he is interupted by Williams. And actually Williams says "This isn't someone who just likes having their gun with them cuz they love guns, this is somebody who is being stalked, under Illinois law there is no provision for that." Triebel replies "correct your honor."

 

I don't see the asst AG confirming container carry here either.

 

Gura did better than either of the Illinois attorneys - Triebel started to make a case that legislators can't be 100% certain of the efficacy of the laws they are considering and Posner interupted him and said "Don't be silly" and then when he mentioned Wyoming in relation to a 1787 question and Posner again admonishes him "Not Wyoming, it wasn't part of the United States", and then he mentions Tombstone.... OMG Triebel was a disaster.

 

 

.

What is ever a complete representation of anything as long winded as all of the UUW/AUUW Laws. The point is that he said she could transport her gun a a self defense weapon as long as it was unloaded. When you combine that with People v Bruner and People v Diggins as well as the recent change in the Wildlife Code... It works for me. Thank's for the great reply though, it was well written and while I do not agree with you, I respect your view.

[Molly B.]

I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how the NRA 'sat on their hands'? Heller was decided in 2008 and McDonald in 2011. Shepard & Moore were both filed at just about the same time in 2012.

 

As a side note, the NRA/ISRA did a fantastic job as Mary Shepard is the much more sympathetic plaintiff.

 

I am also aware of what the NRA attempted to do to Heller as the case was working it's way up and can understand the frustration Gura must have felt with time divided at orals. It did, however, work out well in the end. That said, the NRA is very good at working elections and lobbying for legislation, which compliments the SAF's ability to litigate quite well. Now, everybody play nice and let's get the job done.

The Case is 50 years late and the NRA is only now involved because the 2A Foundation is kicking a** all over the Nation and making them look like the ineffective fools that they have been. Too much talk, not enough action. Hopefully they are taking notes and learning how to get the job done.

 

Regardless of whether or not we agree with the tactics of other Second Amendment organizations, it does not benefit any of us to bash each other. If it weren't for the legislative/electoral action of the NRA, we would have no Second Amendment today. The Second Amendment Foundation has been the leader in judicial cases - it is their specialty - they excel in that area of the fight but they do not get involved in legislative action or electoral races. We need both organizations.

 

You share great advice on how to talk to the anti-gun, anti-rights crowd. Some of that same advice would serve you well when dealing with the guys on our side.

[daplumber]

I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how the NRA 'sat on their hands'? Heller was decided in 2008 and McDonald in 2011. Shepard & Moore were both filed at just about the same time in 2012.

 

As a side note, the NRA/ISRA did a fantastic job as Mary Shepard is the much more sympathetic plaintiff.

 

I am also aware of what the NRA attempted to do to Heller as the case was working it's way up and can understand the frustration Gura must have felt with time divided at orals. It did, however, work out well in the end. That said, the NRA is very good at working elections and lobbying for legislation, which compliments the SAF's ability to litigate quite well. Now, everybody play nice and let's get the job done.

The Case is 50 years late and the NRA is only now involved because the 2A Foundation is kicking a** all over the Nation and making them look like the ineffective fools that they have been. Too much talk, not enough action. Hopefully they are taking notes and learning how to get the job done.

 

Regardless of whether or not we agree with the tactics of other Second Amendment organizations, it does not benefit any of us to bash each other. If it weren't for the legislative/electoral action of the NRA, we would have no Second Amendment today. The Second Amendment Foundation has been the leader in judicial cases - it is their specialty - they excel in that area of the fight.

 

You share great advice on how to talk to the anti-gun, anti-rights crowd. Some of that same advice would serve you well when dealing with the guys on our side.

Okay Molly B.

[Drylok]

Doesn't look like illinoiscarry has any beef with container carry. They just want you to be aware that city ordinances vary around the sate. You guys up there need to carry your own bucket once in a while

[Molly B.]

. Where has the NRA been for 50 Year's?

 

Fighting for our rights on a national level. Supporting candidates all across this country who support the Second Amendment. Supporting legislation nationally and in the states. Helping to push right to carry laws to the point that 49 have some form of law. Developing and implementing the best firearm/marksmanship educational programs in the world. Supporting, funding, and building the largest shooting sports program the world has ever seen.

 

We might all have our frustrations with the whatever Second Amendment group we join, I know I have my own frustrations, but picking our friends apart or attacking them is not a good way to elicit more help from them.

[Molly B.]

If there were thousands of people, all over the State who were Container Carrying and made the Media aware of it, the Powers that be, would Pass Concealed Carry in a Week.

 

If this one simple thing would convince Mike Madigan to let the bill onto the floor for a vote and Chicago legislators to vote for Right to Carry, we'd all have carry licenses in our wallets. They know thousands of people outside Cook Co. are doing this already but they don't want their people doing it and it has not changed their stand on this issue.

 

You are challenging people to do something - carry an unloaded gun in a case - that many of us already do on a daily basis when we're in a location where it is legal to do so.

 

I only get in trouble about it by CCW Supporters that feel I am disrupting their cause. To each their own.

 

This 'debate' has been addressed many times over and the answer is always the same. We simply make it clear that in some parts of the state it is still considered illegal to do this and people who choose to do it need to know the risk they are taking. Each must decide for themselves and browbeating our friends over this is not a good thing.

[daplumber]

If there were thousands of people, all over the State who were Container Carrying and made the Media aware of it, the Powers that be, would Pass Concealed Carry in a Week.

 

If this one simple thing would convince Mike Madigan to let the bill onto the floor for a vote and Chicago legislators to vote for Right to Carry, we'd all have carry licenses in our wallets. They know thousands of people outside Cook Co. are doing this already but they don't want their people doing it and it has not changed their stand on this issue.

 

You are challenging people to do something - carry an unloaded gun in a case - that many of us already do on a daily basis when we're in a location where it is legal to do so.

 

I only get in trouble about it by CCW Supporters that feel I am disrupting their cause. To each their own.

 

This 'debate' has been addressed many times over and the answer is always the same. We simply make it clear that in some parts of the state it is still considered illegal to do this and people who choose to do it need to know the risk they are taking. Each must decide for themselves and browbeating our friends over this is not a good thing.

Hey Moly B. Go to bed already, your Grumpy at 3 am... Wow,